touchdown

Defense Wins Championships
NYT Columnist Admits ‘Trump Was Right,’ Dems ‘Wrong’ On Crucial COVID Policy


Times opinion columnist Nicholas Kristof, who has won two Pulitzer Prizes and often appears on the liberal news network CNN, wrote a piece Wednesday headlined “When Trump Was Right and Many Democrats Wrong” shortly after New York City officials announced schools would be shutting down again.

Kristof says he’s been writing since May about the importance of keeping schools open, and “initially the debate wasn’t so politicized. But after Trump, trying to project normalcy, blustered in July about schools needing to open, Republicans backed him and too many Democrats instinctively lined up on the other side. Joe Biden echoed their extreme caution, as did many Democratic mayors and governors.”

The writer blames Democrats. “So Democrats helped preside over school closures that have devastated millions of families and damaged children’s futures. Cities such as Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore and Washington, D.C., have closed schools while allowing restaurants to operate.”
 

Creeper

Practice Squad
Listen to all the science and all opinions, not just the ones that tell her what she wants to hear. Listen to the nurses in my family who work at hospitals that are understaffed for the amount of patients they're currently at. To the two biggest hospitals in the state, who are openly calling for a mandate. To the councils in 5 of the 6 biggest cities in the state who have passed their own mask mandates. To the two hospitals in the city I work in, who called local businesses this week, asking them to require masks of their employees and recommend them to customers because they're closing in or already at capacity.
Watch. Watch how many people who take the "personal responsibility" she touts people for having as personal freedom to do what they want and forget everyone else. How many hospitals are at or near full, and even if they aren't there aren't enough staff to keep up. Her whole thing at the start was about not stopping it but making sure the hospitals could handle it. Well, right now they can't. If her goal this whole time isn't being met and seh won't even consider changing your approach to compensate, what's the reasoning?

Yesterday, my state of NJ had its largest single day total of new CV-19 cases since the beginning of the pandemic. In the first 9 months of this pandemic NJ had a total of 4 days with over 4000 new cases in a single day. In the last 2 weeks, NJ has reported 5 days over 4000 new cases and that is going to get worse. NJ has had a mask mandate and various restrictions in place for more than 5 months. There are several states like NJ that have had mandates in place that are dealing with the same outbreaks. In fact, if you look at the map of the country you will see that almost every state with few exceptions is seeing larger numbers of new cases than they have had for months, regardless of mask mandates and other restrictions. Europe is on the downside of a similar waves, with the exception of a few countries after implementing mask mandates, social distancing policies, and even quarantines.

Yes, we should listen to the scientists, but they have been very wrong about CV-19 a number of times already. Plus, there are scientists who suggest different courses of action. We had scientists telling us that HCQ and Zinc, plus Z-pack was an effective therapeutic. But we also had scientists tell is it did nothing. Some erroneously claimed it was killing people and had to withdraw their study. We have scientists today claiming masks are unhelpful, lockdowns are harmful, and even handwashing is a questionable practice to stop CV-19. "Listen to the scientists" is a meaningless statement unless you add which scientists we should listen to and why.

The absolutely worst thing, besides making this political, we have done regarding CV-19 is to fixate on masks as a solution. Masks are like the decorations on the icing on a cake. The cake and the icing are more important that the little sugar flowers on top, and so it is true for social distancing and hygiene.
 

Creeper

Practice Squad
NYT Columnist Admits ‘Trump Was Right,’ Dems ‘Wrong’ On Crucial COVID Policy


Times opinion columnist Nicholas Kristof, who has won two Pulitzer Prizes and often appears on the liberal news network CNN, wrote a piece Wednesday headlined “When Trump Was Right and Many Democrats Wrong” shortly after New York City officials announced schools would be shutting down again.

Kristof says he’s been writing since May about the importance of keeping schools open, and “initially the debate wasn’t so politicized. But after Trump, trying to project normalcy, blustered in July about schools needing to open, Republicans backed him and too many Democrats instinctively lined up on the other side. Joe Biden echoed their extreme caution, as did many Democratic mayors and governors.”

The writer blames Democrats. “So Democrats helped preside over school closures that have devastated millions of families and damaged children’s futures. Cities such as Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore and Washington, D.C., have closed schools while allowing restaurants to operate.”

Actually, to be fair, I think re-opening schools has had something to do with the massive number of new cases in the US and in Europe. I don't see how this could not be the case. The virus gets carried around by kids who infect everyone else. Anyone with kids knows they are like little germ magnets. When my kids were living at home, I used to get 2 or 3 colds a year and at least 1 good stomach bug every couple of years. Since they left home, I never get sick anymore. I have had 1 cold in over 5 years. I have not had a stomach bug since I can remember. Social distancing works - stay away from your kids!

Having said that, sending the kids to school is the right thing to do. More kids have died from flu this year, by far, than from COVID-19.
 

Maveric

Draft Pick
Yesterday, my state of NJ had its largest single day total of new CV-19 cases since the beginning of the pandemic. In the first 9 months of this pandemic NJ had a total of 4 days with over 4000 new cases in a single day. In the last 2 weeks, NJ has reported 5 days over 4000 new cases and that is going to get worse. NJ has had a mask mandate and various restrictions in place for more than 5 months. There are several states like NJ that have had mandates in place that are dealing with the same outbreaks. In fact, if you look at the map of the country you will see that almost every state with few exceptions is seeing larger numbers of new cases than they have had for months, regardless of mask mandates and other restrictions. Europe is on the downside of a similar waves, with the exception of a few countries after implementing mask mandates, social distancing policies, and even quarantines.

Yes, we should listen to the scientists, but they have been very wrong about CV-19 a number of times already. Plus, there are scientists who suggest different courses of action. We had scientists telling us that HCQ and Zinc, plus Z-pack was an effective therapeutic. But we also had scientists tell is it did nothing. Some erroneously claimed it was killing people and had to withdraw their study. We have scientists today claiming masks are unhelpful, lockdowns are harmful, and even handwashing is a questionable practice to stop CV-19. "Listen to the scientists" is a meaningless statement unless you add which scientists we should listen to and why.

The absolutely worst thing, besides making this political, we have done regarding CV-19 is to fixate on masks as a solution. Masks are like the decorations on the icing on a cake. The cake and the icing are more important that the little sugar flowers on top, and so it is true for social distancing and hygiene.
Look, it's obvious to me that we aren't going to be on the same page at this time. Can I at least get you to agree though that when you're doing something that isn't working you should look to change your approach? I do when it happens in my job, and I'm betting you would if it happens in yours; no reason running a state's pandemic response should be any different. And if a rolling rate of positive tests well over 20 percent and 316 deaths since November 1st doesn't say what you're doing currently isn't working, then I'm not sure what does.
 

Dodger12

Super Moderator
Listen to all the science and all opinions, not just the ones that tell her what she wants to hear. Listen to the nurses in my family who work at hospitals that are understaffed for the amount of patients they're currently at. To the two biggest hospitals in the state, who are openly calling for a mandate. To the councils in 5 of the 6 biggest cities in the state who have passed their own mask mandates. To the two hospitals in the city I work in, who called local businesses this week, asking them to require masks of their employees and recommend them to customers because they're closing in or already at capacity.
Watch. Watch how many people who take the "personal responsibility" she touts people for having as personal freedom to do what they want and forget everyone else. How many hospitals are at or near full, and even if they aren't there aren't enough staff to keep up. Her whole thing at the start was about not stopping it but making sure the hospitals could handle it. Well, right now they can't. If her goal this whole time isn't being met and seh won't even consider changing your approach to compensate, what's the reasoning?

Let's face it Mav, we only listen to the science when we agree with the conclusion. Some medical professionals say masks are effective, some say they are not. Some medical professionals find certain drugs are effective, and some do not. We've had social distancing since March and most people, or at the very least, a large majority in the 90 percentile, wear masks. The virus still spreads. 60 million Americans caught H1N1. Viruses will do what they do.

I have family in the medical profession as well and the hospitals are not overrun, at least in my part of PA. The Covid unit was never at max capacity. The biggest threat to the hospitals was the lack of revenue from normal medical procedures so they had to be bailed out by the state, to the tune of millions. Early on, my local hospital had one month before they went belly up and the state stepped in. Not saying they shouldn't have, but the small business owner can't survive and they always take it in the short hairs.

Walmart and the big box stores have record earnings during the pandemic. Yet people can't go to church. The argument goes far deeper.
 

Creeper

Practice Squad
Look, it's obvious to me that we aren't going to be on the same page at this time. Can I at least get you to agree though that when you're doing something that isn't working you should look to change your approach? I do when it happens in my job, and I'm betting you would if it happens in yours; no reason running a state's pandemic response should be any different. And if a rolling rate of positive tests well over 20 percent and 316 deaths since November 1st doesn't say what you're doing currently isn't working, then I'm not sure what does.

You mean do I agree that "do something, anything!" is the right approach? No. I don't, because it is not a binary decision. There are other factors to consider. There has been one approach that appears to work to stop the spread of COVID-19, mandatory quarantine in government quarantine facilities. However, in the US, there are laws that would prohibit this. In the US we are not a homogenous culture. We are not a society that has for thousands of years conformed to anything. This works against us in a situation like this, and I am not saying this is bad. We have to a certain extent preserved our freedom by being independently minded. Plus, the mandatory quarantine approach only works for as long as you adhere to it. Once you relax the policy, the virus returns, as it will indefinitely.

When I go to the grocery store there are arrows on the floors over every aisle indicating the direction shopper should follow as they go up and down the aisles. My experience is that about half of people follow the arrows. The other half are going the opposite direction. If you want to understand why the US is not controlling the virus like Japan and South Korea, look no further than this. It is who we are.

While I am not a conspiracy theorist, I do believe that the slippery slope is real and we have seen it over and over again. Every reaction becomes a precedent for the future. Over time we willingly surrender our freedom for the sake of a promise of security. I believe there are people in this country with the patience to wait and win in small increments knowing someday, they will get everything they wished for. Thank God there are Americans who dig in and resist government dictates that steal our freedom in small increments. We need more of this along with more personal responsibility.
 

Maveric

Draft Pick
Let's face it Mav, we only listen to the science when we agree with the conclusion. Some medical professionals say masks are effective, some say they are not. Some medical professionals find certain drugs are effective, and some do not. We've had social distancing since March and most people, or at the very least, a large majority in the 90 percentile, wear masks. The virus still spreads. 60 million Americans caught H1N1. Viruses will do what they do.
Viruses do at that,. The other thing they can do is leave consequences that last longer than they do, which is one thing the majority don't want to think about.
A majority may wear there, but here it's probably closer to half, if that. And a large portion of those do so either because their jobs require it or in the few places that absolutely refuse service to them if they don't.
I have family in the medical profession as well and the hospitals are not overrun, at least in my part of PA. The Covid unit was never at max capacity. The biggest threat to the hospitals was the lack of revenue from normal medical procedures so they had to be bailed out by the state, to the tune of millions. Early on, my local hospital had one month before they went belly up and the state stepped in. Not saying they shouldn't have, but the small business owner can't survive and they always take it in the short hairs.

Walmart and the big box stores have record earnings during the pandemic. Yet people can't go to church. The argument goes far deeper.
Where I work the hospitals called local businesses asking them to implement their own mask policies to help them. My sisters in law have told us where they work the hospitals aren't to full, but they're close, and don't have enough staff to handle what they do have.
 

touchdown

Defense Wins Championships
 

Maveric

Draft Pick
We are not a society that has for thousands of years conformed to anything. This works against us in a situation like this, and I am not saying this is bad. We have to a certain extent preserved our freedom by being independently minded. Plus, the mandatory quarantine approach only works for as long as you adhere to it. Once you relax the policy, the virus returns, as it will indefinitely.

When I go to the grocery store there are arrows on the floors over every aisle indicating the direction shopper should follow as they go up and down the aisles. My experience is that about half of people follow the arrows. The other half are going the opposite direction. If you want to understand why the US is not controlling the virus like Japan and South Korea, look no further than this. It is who we are.

While I am not a conspiracy theorist, I do believe that the slippery slope is real and we have seen it over and over again. Every reaction becomes a precedent for the future. Over time we willingly surrender our freedom for the sake of a promise of security. I believe there are people in this country with the patience to wait and win in small increments knowing someday, they will get everything they wished for. Thank God there are Americans who dig in and resist government dictates that steal our freedom in small increments. We need more of this along with more personal responsibility.
There's one big, gaping hole in this line of thinking. Individuals can have patience, responsibility and common sense. People, as a general whole, are impatient, uncompromising, and incapable of handling anything long term that doesn't benefit just them, like say, personal responsibility. You said it yourself, we are independently minded. Do you think any politician has handled the virus the way they have because they felt it was best
In the US we are not a homogenous culture. We are not a society that has for thousands of years conformed to anything. This works against us in a situation like this, and I am not saying this is bad. We have to a certain extent preserved our freedom by being independently minded. Plus, the mandatory quarantine approach only works for as long as you adhere to it. Once you relax the policy, the virus returns, as it will indefinitely.

When I go to the grocery store there are arrows on the floors over every aisle indicating the direction shopper should follow as they go up and down the aisles. My experience is that about half of people follow the arrows. The other half are going the opposite direction. If you want to understand why the US is not controlling the virus like Japan and South Korea, look no further than this. It is who we are.
The most I've agreed with anything you've said yet.
I believe there are people in this country with the patience to wait and win in small increments knowing someday, they will get everything they wished for. Thank God there are Americans who dig in and resist government dictates that steal our freedom in small increments. We need more of this along with more personal responsibility.
And then...you contradict yourself. The reason people don't conform, the reason people are "who we are" is that they, with relatively few exceptions, don't have the patience for anything that isn't our idea or to our benefit. It's why people have no patience for a curfew, yet can organize a protest starting a minute after the curfew starts. It's why "personal responsibility" can work for a small or select group of people, but as a whole is doomed to fail.
 

touchdown

Defense Wins Championships

On March 17, 2020 The Gateway Pundit first reported on the controversial Ethiopian politician and Director General of the World Health Organization (WHO), Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, and his irresponsible and completely inaccurate fear mongering.

Tedros claimed in a press conference in early March that the fatality rate for the coronavirus was 3.4% — many multiples that of the fatality rate of the common flu which is estimated to be around 0.1%.

This egregiously false premise led to the greatest global pandemic panic in world history.

The Gateway Pundit reported at the time that the coronavirus fatality rate reported by the liberal mainstream media was completely inaccurate and the actual rate was more like a typical seasonal flu – the media was lying again.

The false reporting of the coronavirus fatality rate at 3.4% in the media started with the statements made by the WHO in early March.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The Gateway Pundit reported, according to CDC numbers, in the US in the 2019-2020 flu season, there were 222,552 confirmed cases of the flu from testing and an estimated 36 million flu cases in the United States.

There were 22,000 estimated deaths from the flu as reported by the CDC.

The number of individuals who contracted the flu is an estimate.

There is no way to know how many people in the US had the flu in a given flu season because many cases are not severe and people do not have a test taken to confirm they had the flu. They believe their symptoms are minor and go on with their normal lives thinking they had a cold or something similar. Because of this, the CDC estimated 36 million people had the flu in this past flu season.

The rate of the number of individuals who died from the flu to the number of individuals who were estimated to have had the flu is 0.1% (22,552 / 36 million). This is an estimate and the amount used above by the Director General of the WHO as the mortality rate for the flu.

In October, more than a half a year after our initial report in March, the WHO released new numbers that indicate that the China coronavirus has mortality similar to the flu.

The WHO now estimates that 750,000,000 people have had the coronavirus today. With one million global deaths that puts the mortality rate at 0.13%.
 

Creeper

Practice Squad
There's one big, gaping hole in this line of thinking. Individuals can have patience, responsibility and common sense. People, as a general whole, are impatient, uncompromising, and incapable of handling anything long term that doesn't benefit just them, like say, personal responsibility. You said it yourself, we are independently minded. Do you think any politician has handled the virus the way they have because they felt it was best

The most I've agreed with anything you've said yet.

And then...you contradict yourself. The reason people don't conform, the reason people are "who we are" is that they, with relatively few exceptions, don't have the patience for anything that isn't our idea or to our benefit. It's why people have no patience for a curfew, yet can organize a protest starting a minute after the curfew starts. It's why "personal responsibility" can work for a small or select group of people, but as a whole is doomed to fail.

You ask, did any politician handle it well. The answer is, what was the goal? In the US we originally set out to flatten the curve to prevent overcrowding of hospitals and shortages of equipment. The Trump admin addressed the equipment shortages early on. They also addressed the only long term viable solution, getting a vaccine. The original goal, which no one complained about, was achieved. We did flatten the curve. What Trump has always wanted to do was balance our response to the virus with the need to keep the economy breathing, even if it was on a respirator. Locking down for 10 months would surely kill our economy. It was also unsustainable. By focusing on daily new cases reported or even death totals, the media - and Democrats - shifted the focus to a more zero tolerance approach. The goal became eradicating the virus, not flattening the curve. This was never a realistic approach.
 

Creeper

Practice Squad

On March 17, 2020 The Gateway Pundit first reported on the controversial Ethiopian politician and Director General of the World Health Organization (WHO), Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, and his irresponsible and completely inaccurate fear mongering.

Tedros claimed in a press conference in early March that the fatality rate for the coronavirus was 3.4% — many multiples that of the fatality rate of the common flu which is estimated to be around 0.1%.

This egregiously false premise led to the greatest global pandemic panic in world history.

The Gateway Pundit reported at the time that the coronavirus fatality rate reported by the liberal mainstream media was completely inaccurate and the actual rate was more like a typical seasonal flu – the media was lying again.

The false reporting of the coronavirus fatality rate at 3.4% in the media started with the statements made by the WHO in early March.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The Gateway Pundit reported, according to CDC numbers, in the US in the 2019-2020 flu season, there were 222,552 confirmed cases of the flu from testing and an estimated 36 million flu cases in the United States.

There were 22,000 estimated deaths from the flu as reported by the CDC.

The number of individuals who contracted the flu is an estimate.

There is no way to know how many people in the US had the flu in a given flu season because many cases are not severe and people do not have a test taken to confirm they had the flu. They believe their symptoms are minor and go on with their normal lives thinking they had a cold or something similar. Because of this, the CDC estimated 36 million people had the flu in this past flu season.

The rate of the number of individuals who died from the flu to the number of individuals who were estimated to have had the flu is 0.1% (22,552 / 36 million). This is an estimate and the amount used above by the Director General of the WHO as the mortality rate for the flu.

In October, more than a half a year after our initial report in March, the WHO released new numbers that indicate that the China coronavirus has mortality similar to the flu.

The WHO now estimates that 750,000,000 people have had the coronavirus today. With one million global deaths that puts the mortality rate at 0.13%.

To be fair, when H1N1 was first detected the same health organizations that estimated the fatality of COVID-19, estimated H1N1 would have a fatality rate of near 7%. This is why Obama declared a national health emergency. But it is also why we can compare the Trump administration response to CV to the Obama admin response to H1N1. As it turned out, H1N1 was not nearly as deadly as thought, but as one of Obama's own H1N1 task force advisors said, they we lucky. The fact is Obama didn't really do anything in response to H1N1. A few months into the pandemic he ordered testing for H1N1 to stop! That's why we have to estimate how many got sick and how many died. And the estimate of deaths, about 13,000, is probably a gross underestimate. To see this, just look at the rest of the world. The US reported a CFR of about 1/2 of that of the rest of the world. That is statistically unlikely. If you look at the stats for COVID-19, it is reversed. There are many countries reporting substantially lower CFRs than the US which means many countries are undercounting CV-19 deaths.
 

Doomsday

High Plains Drifter
There are many countries reporting substantially lower CFRs than the US which means many countries are undercounting CV-19 deaths.
Orrrrrr, could mean we are OVER counting since we tie federal dollars in based on it. Could be both. But definitely the states have incentive to over-report.
 

Scot

Pro Bowler
So a new study of over 160 countries over the last 8 months has determined that lockdowns are not effective in lowering the COVID mortality rate

Who knew
The portion below is from the article

The reality is that lockdowns come with incredible collateral damage but appear to do little if anything to actually slow down the coronavirus. This is precisely why the World Health Organization reversed course in October and began advising nations to refrain from using them.

“Lockdowns just have one consequence that you must never ever belittle, and that is making poor people an awful lot poorer,” Dr. David Nabarro, the WHO's Special Envoy on COVID-19, observed.

It’s time for the intellectual class to admit a basic reality about lockdowns.

They aren’t just horribly destructive and an affront to liberty. They’re actually failing to save lives.

 

Maveric

Draft Pick
You ask, did any politician handle it well. The answer is, what was the goal? In the US we originally set out to flatten the curve to prevent overcrowding of hospitals and shortages of equipment. The Trump admin addressed the equipment shortages early on. They also addressed the only long term viable solution, getting a vaccine. The original goal, which no one complained about, was achieved. We did flatten the curve.
For a time, yes, that goal was met. It's not being met now.
What Trump has always wanted to do was balance our response to the virus with the need to keep the economy breathing, even if it was on a respirator. Locking down for 10 months would surely kill our economy. It was also unsustainable. By focusing on daily new cases reported or even death totals, the media - and Democrats - shifted the focus to a more zero tolerance approach. The goal became eradicating the virus, not flattening the curve. This was never a realistic approach.
It kills me when people make it sound like their politician of choice has completely altruistic motives. Everyone on both sides of the fence, Republican and Democrat alike, have always been agenda driven in regards to the virus, just like in all things. Most at least attempt to be subtle about it. Others, like Trump and Noem, do not.
 
Top Bottom
We've logged Hit Counter by Digits Visitors since 2018.
DISCLAIMER:
The company requires me to use a disclaimer:
The opinions expressed are solely those of authors on this forum and do not represent the views of the Company (Jackson's Food Stores)
Thank you.