The never-ending POTUS Election thread....

[peplaw06]

He's different because he hasn't taken money from the "system" up there. That's why they are all terrified of him, which makes me sort of like him and want to give him a chance.

He may or may not be "bought," but listen to what he says. Every "solution" he brings to the table is "my government will fix it." Whether he accepts donations from the establishment or not doesn't change that.

 

[Doomsday]

He may or may not be "bought," but listen to what he says. Every "solution" he brings to the table is "my government will fix it." Whether he accepts donations from the establishment or not doesn't change that.

Few people notice this. Every single thing Trump has proposed involves bigger and more intrusive government, more spending, more taxation by proxy (How does Mexico "pay for the wall?" Import duties on goods manufactured there. Who pays that? The US consumer.).

He's Mr. Big Government. This however he has in common with all other GOP candidates.

 

[dbair1967]

He may or may not be "bought," but listen to what he says. Every "solution" he brings to the table is "my government will fix it." Whether he accepts donations from the establishment or not doesn't change that.

How is his solution for immigration and the wall anything like the others?

His tax plan is better than the others.

His trade plan is better than the others.

None of these were examples of "the government can do everything", which by the way is more of a left leaning mantra than the right.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

Few people notice this. Every single thing Trump has proposed involves bigger and more intrusive government, more spending, more taxation by proxy (How does Mexico "pay for the wall?" Import duties on goods manufactured there. Who pays that? The US consumer.).

His terrible anti-free trade ideas are some of the worst. But most people don't understand that the consumer will pay, as you say. They just hear "bring jobs home" and stop there. I know I don't want to pay 30% more every time I go to Home Depot just to create relatively few minimum wage jobs here.

This is another rant I guess, but schools must not teach basic economics anymore. The number of young Sanders supporters shows that.

Back to Trump-- again, hope he's just posturing. Maybe he is because it's working. But what good is a candidate who doesn't do what he says once he's in office?

 

[dbair1967]

His terrible anti-free trade ideas are some of the worst. But most people don't understand that the consumer will pay, as you say. They just hear "bring jobs home" and stop there. I know I don't want to pay 30% more every time I go to Home Depot just to create relatively few minimum wage jobs here.

But he is 100% right in that the trade deals we do have in place are awful and have to be looked at. This Pacific Trade deal is also a disaster.

This is another rant I guess, but schools must not teach basic economics anymore. The number of young Sanders supporters shows that.

Of course they don't. They preach the value of socialism and how it can solve all the worlds problems.

Back to Trump-- again, hope he's just posturing. Maybe he is because it's working. But what good is a candidate who doesn't do what he says once he's in office?

I think he'll definitely TRY and do most of what he is talking about. I'm also sure he'll find whatever leverage he can use to help do better deals (both within our country and outside)

 

[jnday]

How is his solution for immigration and the wall anything like the others?

His tax plan is better than the others.

His trade plan is better than the others.

None of these were examples of "the government can do everything", which by the way is more of a left leaning mantra than the right.

He has also said that the state's should be dealing with issues such as gay marriage and among other things. This country was supposed to have a federal government that maintained the defense of the states and few minor responsibilities . The states should have the power to govern themselves without the Feds intruding. As you guys know, I believe in state's rights and I would rather see this country split up . There is no damn way that I should have to live in the same country as these liberal idiots.

 

[Doomsday]

There is no damn way that I should have to live in the same country as these liberal idiots.

Well, you don't.

 

[Sheik]

TE said something earlier that sounds bad on the surface, but IMO is a good thing.

Trump's trade approach, if successful, would mean consumers pay more for products.

I don't see that as a bad thing at all. This Country used to make things, quality things, and we can do that again. It will be a really rough transition, but we'd be way better off in the long game.

Ill pay $1,500 for an iPhone if it means the guy making it lives here. Those jobs were the lifeblood of the economy at one time. Things cost more, but people could afford to buy them because they had good paying jobs.

It's like someone decided "hey, let's bring in cheap shit, it'll cost millions of jobs, but hey, our dirt poor will have cellphones and directv.".

This wasn't a shot at TE, just my opinion. I'm willing to pay more for products of it means people get off the tit and back to work.

 

[Doomsday]

TE said something earlier that sounds bad on the surface, but IMO is a good thing.

Trump's trade approach, if successful, would mean consumers pay more for products.

I don't see that as a bad thing at all. This Country used to make things, quality things, and we can do that again. It will be a really rough transition, but we'd be way better off in the long game.

Ill pay $1,500 for an iPhone if it means the guy making it lives here. Those jobs were the lifeblood of the economy at one time. Things cost more, but people could afford to buy them because they had good paying jobs.

It's like someone decided "hey, let's bring in cheap shit, it'll cost millions of jobs, but hey, our dirt poor will have cellphones and directv.".

This wasn't a shot at TE, just my opinion. I'm willing to pay more for products of it means people get off the tit and back to work.

The question becomes if you try to manufacture this - as Trump proposes - with trade tariffs and other more big government protectionist crap, or does it come along organically by removing the whole reason all these jobs fled the country: Punitive over-taxation and over-regulation, and the union parasite consuming the host. Do we accomplish it with yet more big government, or by fucking REDUCING government, is the question.

Reducing government means your i-phone CAN be all built here, but not cost 1500 fucking dollars. Doing trade tariffs and embargoes guarantees everything costs more - and does NOT guarantee any jobs returning! When companies can just pass the extra cost of Trumps proposals on to the consumer, they have no incentive at all to return here.

 

[dbair1967]

He has also said that the state's should be dealing with issues such as gay marriage and among other things. This country was supposed to have a federal government that maintained the defense of the states and few minor responsibilities . The states should have the power to govern themselves without the Feds intruding. As you guys know, I believe in state's rights and I would rather see this country split up . There is no damn way that I should have to live in the same country as these liberal idiots.

The founders believed in states rights too.

Its all gone down the shitter the past 8 years though. Obuma has said a big fuck you to the individual states.

 

[dbair1967]

Reducing government means your i-phone CAN be all built here, but not cost 1500 fucking dollars. Doing trade tariffs and embargoes guarantees everything costs more - and does NOT guarantee any jobs returning! When companies can just pass the extra cost of Trumps proposals on to the consumer, they have no incentive at all to return here.

What does guarantees jobs and probably a few trillion dollars returning is lowering our ridiculous corporate income tax rates.

 

[Doomsday]

What does guarantees jobs and probably a few trillion dollars returning is lowering our ridiculous corporate income tax rates.

As I covered with, "removing the whole reason all these jobs fled the country: Punitive over-taxation and over-regulation, and the union parasite consuming the host."

 

[jnday]

The founders believed in states rights too.

Its all gone down the shitter the past 8 years though. Obuma has said a big fuck you to the individual states.

There us no way in hell that the people of my state should be forced to obey laws that was made by some liberal idiot in California that goes against every belief that we have. That shit stinks.

 

[bbgun]

Ill pay $1,500 for an iPhone if it means the guy making it lives here. Those jobs were the lifeblood of the economy at one time. Things cost more, but people could afford to buy them because they had good paying jobs.

Not everyone would share your economic patriotism. For every person who would pay $1,500 for a home-grown iPhone, 50 would pay $800 for an equally good Samsung. And it's not just "luxury" or high-tech goods that will be affected. Most of the clothes in my closet were made in China, Vietnam or Mexico. Unlike an iPhone, clothes are a necessity.

 

[dbair1967]

Not everyone would share your economic patriotism. For every person who would pay $1,500 for a home-grown iPhone, 50 would pay $800 for an equally good Samsung. And it's not just "luxury" or high-tech goods that will be affected. Most of the clothes in my closet were made in China, Vietnam or Mexico. Unlike an iPhone, clothes are a necessity.

They farm out the labor because they have to make some money up somewhere BB.

Economic policies of Obamunism have run corporate taxes and regulation through the roof.

 

[Hoofbite]

He may or may not be "bought," but listen to what he says. Every "solution" he brings to the table is "my government will fix it." Whether he accepts donations from the establishment or not doesn't change that.

That really is his plan.

He knows people, they know stuff, and everything will work when the time comes. Shit, he promotes all these geniuses he knows so much I'm considering trying to figure out their names so I can write one of them in. Well, provided I was going to vote.

 

[peplaw06]

How is his solution for immigration and the wall anything like the others?

His tax plan is better than the others.

His trade plan is better than the others.

None of these were examples of "the government can do everything", which by the way is more of a left leaning mantra than the right.

It's not about right vs left anymore. It's Republicans vs Democrats. The Republicans used to stand for conservative principles in economic matters. That's not what they are now.

Building a wall alone isn't a solution for immigration. Rounding up 12 million ilegal immigrants is impossible. Then he says he will let them come back in legally. Sounds like a waste of money to round them up, send them away, then let them back in. Why not just have a path to legal citizenship, then if illegal immigrants don't take advantage of it within so much time, then they are rounded up. Trump's proposal is a yuuuge waste of time and resources... All that said, I don't even think he's all that serious about the idea, I think it's leverage.

I don't know how his tax plan compares to Cruz or Kasich. I think if all of them are for simplifying or blowing it up, then that's better. That's what most of them have been saying. One thing I can count on Republicans doing is saying the right things on taxes IMO. Whether they will actuall be able to implement what they say is another story.

I don't like his rhetoric on trade, but I'll save that for the next post.

The thing about him is he's a deal-maker... I don't think of him as principled. He will sell one idea out for another if it meets with his priorities. I don't know if it's a good or bad thing, but how can you trust that he'll do what he says?

 

[peplaw06]

But he is 100% right in that the trade deals we do have in place are awful and have to be looked at. This Pacific Trade deal is also a disaster.

How are the trade deals a disaster?

If we're trading, then by definition we are getting something back. Whether it's cheaper goods or actual money back, trade is a good thing. Villifying other countries because you are of the opinion that you're getting the short end of the straw isn't particularly diplomatic, and in the area of trade, it could end up in lost jobs, higher cost of goods, less competition, diminished quality in products, etc.

If you think the trade deals need to be reworked, fine... but if you think you're going to "stick it to" China or Mexico, what you're really going to do is just piss them off and set us back in the global marketplace. True trade requires mutual benefit. These other countries aren't just going to agree to be our whipping posts.

 

[dbair1967]

How are the trade deals a disaster?

If we're trading, then by definition we are getting something back. Whether it's cheaper goods or actual money back, trade is a good thing. Villifying other countries because you are of the opinion that you're getting the short end of the straw isn't particularly diplomatic, and in the area of trade, it could end up in lost jobs, higher cost of goods, less competition, diminished quality in products, etc.

If you think the trade deals need to be reworked, fine... but if you think you're going to "stick it to" China or Mexico, what you're really going to do is just piss them off and set us back in the global marketplace. True trade requires mutual benefit. These other countries aren't just going to agree to be our whipping posts.

Seriously?

 

[peplaw06]

Yes seriously....

Don't do that thing where you just state conclusions and don't back them up. That's not compelling to me.