No Plans To Extend Spencer By Deadline

[Hoofbite]

Franchise tag is just a title.

Yeah, a title that comes with a big ass cap hit.

 

[dbair1967]

Yeah, a title that comes with a big ass cap hit.

a 1yr cap hit that doesnt lock us into keeping him past this year

and we had the cap money to keep him...signing him for 1yr didnt preclude us from doing anything in free agency, and by keeping him we had one less major hole to fill for THIS year

 

[dbair1967]

Did Spencer ask for Ware money? I didn't hear that he did. I know this is his chance to hit it big but I just have a hard time believing they couldn't have signed him to a multi-year deal, spread out the moeny over 3 or 4 years. $8.8M for a year and letting him walk doesn't seem like a sound strategy.

I know we've pointed out other deals (Ahmad Brooks and Wimbley?) that would have made much more sense for the team. Spencer had to have known he wasn't going to get much more than what those 2 got.

Most thought he would have been the #1 3-4 OLB prospect on the market had he gotten free, he almost assuredly would have gotten more money than Brooks and Wimbley got. Wouldnt have made sense to do that for him with his resume.

 

[superpunk]

Did Spencer ask for Ware money? I didn't hear that he did. I know this is his chance to hit it big but I just have a hard time believing they couldn't have signed him to a multi-year deal, spread out the money over 3 or 4 years. $8.8M for a year and letting him walk doesn't seem like a sound strategy.

I know we've pointed out other deals (Ahmad Brooks and Wimbley?) that would have made much more sense for the team. Spencer had to have known he wasn't going to get much more than what those 2 got.

I think he's a player we want to replace no matter what. Yeah he's ok but he's one of those Wade guys who you know you have to be on him nonstop for him to perform. I think we want them gone it just wasn't possible with what we needed to do in the secondary to get rid of Spencer so we bought some time.

 

[Midswat]

He's not worth what we're paying him but we dont have anyone who can replace him. We have no leverage, if we plan on competing this year.

Good thing the OLB position looks deep in the next draft.

 

[Hoofbite]

Did Spencer ask for Ware money? I didn't hear that he did. I know this is his chance to hit it big but I just have a hard time believing they couldn't have signed him to a multi-year deal, spread out the moeny over 3 or 4 years. $8.8M for a year and letting him walk doesn't seem like a sound strategy.

I know we've pointed out other deals (Ahmad Brooks and Wimbley?) that would have made much more sense for the team. Spencer had to have known he wasn't going to get much more than what those 2 got.

Ahmad Brooks contract pretty much pisses on any argument regarding the cap.

If they cut him after this very season, they'll take a cap hit like 300K more TOTAL than what Spencer's tag number is for this year alone.

Dallas put itself in a corner. If he plays like shit, they'll have wasted a ton of money. If he plays great, they'll have missed an opportunity to keep him because there's no way in hell they can pay him all that money next year.

The 49ers played their hand perfectly. If Ahmad plays like shit, they cut him and pay a smidgeon more for having worked a deal for him.

If he plays great, he's under contract for another 4-5 years. His contract is structured so he has to continue to play well to get more money. The moment he doesn't, they can let his ass go in a heartbeat and move right on.



Look at that.

Lets say they cut him after this season. They will have taken a cap charge of 2.85M and then they have to accelerate the rest of the guaranteed money, a total of 6.25M Grand total of 9.1M

Hey, lets say that he plays well. Cap hit of 2012 of 2.85M and a cap hit of 6.65M in 2013. That means that they will get his services for 2012 and 2013 for only 700K more than what Dallas will take in cap charges to have Anthony Spencer for 1 year.

At ABSOLUTE worst, they pay 300K more than Dallas in cap charges and end up in the exact same spot.

At ABSOLUTE best, they basically get a free year (compared to Dallas) and have him under contract for another 4 seasons without ever having to take a cap hit as high as Spencer's in any single year.

That's why the franchise tag was the dumbest move for Dallas.

If he isn't in your plans, fuck him. Let him go and use that money to improve other areas.

If he is in your plans, lock him up. Give yourself a little more space now and give yourself multiple "outs" in the future.

Dallas shit the bed on this. They're in a "no win" situation. If he sucks, you've wasted it all and if he's good you've essentially guaranteed you don't get his services next year.

 

[Hoofbite]

a 1yr cap hit that doesnt lock us into keeping him past this year

and we had the cap money to keep him...signing him for 1yr didnt preclude us from doing anything in free agency, and by keeping him we had one less major hole to fill for THIS year

The team has many major holes.

Next year, they have all the holes left unfilled right now and then one more because Spencer will be gone.

They could have signed him to a contract that worked for both sides. The 49ers did it.

If THIS YEAR is all you care about, that's fine. But if you actually care about trying to build the team, pissing away money on a rental isn't the way to do it.

 

[dbair1967]

Ahmad Brooks contract pretty much pisses on any argument regarding the cap.

If they cut him after this very season, they'll take a cap hit like 300K more TOTAL than what Spencer's tag number is for this year alone.

Dallas put itself in a corner. If he plays like shit, they'll have wasted a ton of money. If he plays great, they'll have missed an opportunity to keep him because there's no way in hell they can pay him all that money next year.

The 49ers played their hand perfectly. If Ahmad plays like shit, they cut him and pay a smidgeon more for having worked a deal for him.

If he plays great, he's under contract for another 4-5 years. His contract is structured so he has to continue to play well to get more money. The moment he doesn't, they can let his ass go in a heartbeat and move right on.

View attachment 419

Look at that.

Lets say they cut him after this season. They will have taken a cap charge of 2.85M and then they have to accelerate the rest of the guaranteed money, a total of 6.25M Grand total of 9.1M

Hey, lets say that he plays well. Cap hit of 2012 of 2.85M and a cap hit of 6.65M in 2013. That means that they will get his services for 2012 and 2013 for only 700K more than what Dallas will take in cap charges to have Anthony Spencer for 1 year.

At ABSOLUTE worst, they pay 300K more than Dallas in cap charges and end up in the exact same spot.

At ABSOLUTE best, they basically get a free year (compared to Dallas) and have him under contract for another 4 seasons without ever having to take a cap hit as high as Spencer's in any single year.

That's why the franchise tag was the dumbest move for Dallas.

If he isn't in your plans, fuck him. Let him go and use that money to improve other areas.

If he is in your plans, lock him up. Give yourself a little more space now and give yourself multiple "outs" in the future.

Dallas shit the bed on this. They're in a "no win" situation. If he sucks, you've wasted it all and if he's good you've essentially guaranteed you don't get his services next year.

The problem with this argument is you assume Spencer would have agreed to a deal like this. Brooks was not rated as high as Spencer was (according to everyone I saw who commented on this) so its highly unlikely he would have taken any kind of similar deal.

The franchise tag wasnt a dumb move, it was really the only move that made sense. There was no obvious starter via free agency or the draft we could have got to replace him. Some of you keep mentioning Kam Wimbley, but Ryan coached both guys and if he had really thought Wimbley was better (or at least as good) as Spencer, I'm sure they'd have pursued him.

 

[Theebs]

I think he's a player we want to replace no matter what. Yeah he's ok but he's one of those Wade guys who you know you have to be on him nonstop for him to perform. I think we want them gone it just wasn't possible with what we needed to do in the secondary to get rid of Spencer so we bought some time.

I think that is it in a nutshell.

I just hope we get a great year out of him. We need to have a great year from the defense for all they put into it.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't know why, but I'm starting to get superpunk mixed up with Midswat.

 

[Hoofbite]

The problem with this argument is you assume Spencer would have agreed to a deal like this. Brooks was not rated as high as Spencer was (according to everyone I saw who commented on this) so its highly unlikely he would have taken any kind of similar deal.

The franchise tag wasnt a dumb move, it was really the only move that made sense. There was no obvious starter via free agency or the draft we could have got to replace him. Some of you keep mentioning Kam Wimbley, but Ryan coached both guys and if he had really thought Wimbley was better (or at least as good) as Spencer, I'm sure they'd have pursued him.

Maybe Wimbley improved. Maybe coaches aren't infallible, dbair.

I'd bet you anything the Chargers have different thoughts right now about Robinson than they had when he was picked off the scrap heap by Dallas.

How does anyone know that Rob didn't put a word in any way.......just because it didn't happen?

 

[dbair1967]

The team has many major holes.

Next year, they have all the holes left unfilled right now and then one more because Spencer will be gone.

They could have signed him to a contract that worked for both sides. The 49ers did it.

If THIS YEAR is all you care about, that's fine. But if you actually care about trying to build the team, pissing away money on a rental isn't the way to do it.

again, your making an assumption you have no way in hell of proving...Spencer almost assuredly wouldnt have taken that sort of deal, and would have been a player in demand had he hit the market, further driving up his price

 

[cmd34]

If a year from now, this guy..

..is lining up opposite of DeMarcus Ware I will have forgotten about this silly decision to franchise Spencer. I'm just fearful we will be in the exact same boat next off-season of not wanting to pay him what he wants and having no real replacement.

 

[dbair1967]

The team has many major holes.

Next year, they have all the holes left unfilled right now and then one more because Spencer will be gone.

They could have signed him to a contract that worked for both sides. The 49ers did it.

If THIS YEAR is all you care about, that's fine. But if you actually care about trying to build the team, pissing away money on a rental isn't the way to do it.

Next year they have alot more options via the draft of potential replacements for Spencer. The talent at OLB is going to be ALOT betetr than what this years draft had.

Signing Spener to that 1yr deal didnt preclude them from making any moves they needed to make. Whereas letting him go would have opened up an enormous hole at a position considered fairly critical for a 3-4 defense.

 

[Hoofbite]

again, your making an assumption you have no way in hell of proving

Guess that makes two of us.

...Spencer almost assuredly wouldnt have taken that sort of deal, and would have been a player in demand had he hit the market

Yeah, like you have a single fucking clue as to what he would have taken or wouldn't have taken based media speculation as to which players rank higher than others.

 

[Hoofbite]

Next year they have alot more options via the draft of potential replacements for Spencer. The talent at OLB is going to be ALOT betetr than what this years draft had.

Signing Spener to that 1yr deal didnt preclude them from making any moves they needed to make. Whereas letting him go would have opened up an enormous hole at a position considered fairly critical for a 3-4 defense.

Of course it didn't prevent anything in the most absolute of terms.

You can always make cap money. Yet we chastise the fuck out of Dan Snyder for making that his annual SOP so he can shop around some more.

 

[superpunk]

It's not a money thing. They want Spencer off the team, I think that is completely obvious.

So we bought ourselves time with a contract that only hurts us this year. If we had given him a long term deal, and then cut him next year because he's Anthony Spencer and we fucking know what he's about by now, then we are on the hook for his accelerated bonus AND the salary of the player we are going to have to draft/sign to replace him, which is something I don't think you included earlier with your Brooks comparison, hoofbite.

This way we get another year out of him in which he is hopefully trying hard for a new contract, and we can replace him next season and only be on the hook for his replacement's money, rather than needlessly creating dead money ourselves.

 

[Hoofbite]

It's not a money thing. They want Spencer off the team, I think that is completely obvious.

So we bought ourselves time with a contract that only hurts us this year. If we had given him a long term deal, and then cut him next year because he's Anthony Spencer and we fucking know what he's about by now, then we are on the hook for his accelerated bonus AND the salary of the player we are going to have to draft/sign to replace him, which is something I don't think you included earlier with your Brooks comparison, hoofbite.

This way we get another year out of him in which he is hopefully trying hard for a new contract, and we can replace him next season and only be on the hook for his replacement's money, rather than needlessly creating dead money ourselves.

If the accelerated cost plus this years cap hit is minimally more than the cap hit this year alone.........you structure the FA signings so that they get more this year and less next year.

Quick example......

Brandon Carr's cap hit this year is 3.2M

Spencer's is 8.8M.

You reduce Carr's cap hit for next year (16.3M) by increasing his cap hit this year.......voila! Exact same spot but you have Spencer under contract if he performs well, in which case there wouldn't be a replacement.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

bump

 

[superpunk]

If the accelerated cost plus this years cap hit is minimally more than the cap hit this year alone.........you structure the FA signings so that they get more this year and less next year.

Quick example......

Brandon Carr's cap hit this year is 3.2M

Spencer's is 8.8M.

You reduce Carr's cap hit for next year (16.3M) by increasing his cap hit this year.......voila! Exact same spot but you have Spencer under contract if he performs well, in which case there wouldn't be a replacement.

But that kind of ignores the whole part where I said it's obvious we want to replace him no matter what because of the type of player he is.

I mean I fucking hate to say it but he's not an RKG. He's gone. We just couldn't replace him this year.