Ezekiel Elliot

[tonyraye]

The last time Jones had a top DL suspended right before the draft, he reached for Ebenezer Ekuban.

Problem with this, is that Stephan Jones has taken over the last 2 drafts and he seems to know what he is doing. He stopped daddy from drafting Manziel and I have faith he will do well this year.

People saying that a RB will make the defense better are totally correct. Time of possession will leave the defense on the bench longer and more rested. I just don't know if that RB is Elliot.

This draft is a very weak draft, so saying this RB or QB is the best in the draft does not mean they are great when compared to great QB's or RB's coming out in previous or future drafts. I still believe Fournette is the RB for the Cowboys and if someone is willing to pay the price other teams have been paying for the 1 and 2 picks for #4 then the Cowboys could end up with a lot of firepower to move up to take Fournette next year. This year, I think with Morris signing, the way Romo's contract is structured and all the moves to cover the DL. If the Cowboys do not move on Josh Norman or trade the pick, I would say they would draft Ramsey. This is something I don't agree with
as I believe Ramsey is the best player in this draft, he is not better than Byron Jones who the Cowboys got in the late first round last year and Ramsey will end up playing safety with Jones.

 

[MrB]

Now that 1st round QB is out of the equation and there's a serious need for DE's I wouldn't be upset with Bosa at 4, Bullard/Billings at 34, and Ronald Blair in the 4th.

 

[tonyraye]

Now that 1st round QB is out of the equation and there's a serious need for DE's I wouldn't be upset with Bosa at 4, Bullard/Billings at 34, and Ronald Blair in the 4th.

DL is deep this year and Bosa is not and will not be a premier pass rusher, he is too stiff. I would rather them go in a different direction with the first round and address DL in the 2nd.

 

[ZeroClub]

I wouldn't completely rule out Elliott. The DL crop is deep, its not far fetched to think they could nab one or two good DE's even if they used a 2nd and 3rd, 2nd and 4th or 3rd and 4th etc etc.

I'm not really worried about Lawrence long term. While it stinks and its bad timing to get suspended, it isn't like he is on crack or meth or something. He might have been taking the 'mines to help him with his studying (he is finishing his degree this offseason according to something I read)

Technically, Elliott is still possible, but he became more improbable.

I'd like to agree with you on Lawrence, but I'm not there. Sure, his issues aren't of the Manziel - Josh Gordon magnitude and possibly not even of the Randy Gregory magnitude.

But, to be at this point, Lawrence had to have flunked previous tests. He's either got a drug problem or a stupid problem, and maybe both.

Isn't it crazy that against the backdrop of his teammates' problems, Orlando Scandrick today somehow looks like the Rock of Gibraltar?

 

[dbair1967]

DL is deep this year and Bosa is not and will not be a premier pass rusher, he is too stiff. I would rather them go in a different direction with the first round and address DL in the 2nd.

I don't see Bosa as "stiff" at all.

The only thing he lacks is explosive 40-time speed.

 

[MrB]

DL is deep this year and Bosa is not and will not be a premier pass rusher, he is too stiff. I would rather them go in a different direction with the first round and address DL in the 2nd.

Adding Bosa by himself would not make much of a difference however you add Bullard/Billings and Ronald Blair in addition to Bosa the DL would be light years better.

 

[tonyraye]

I don't see Bosa as "stiff" at all.

The only thing he lacks is explosive 40-time speed.

40 yard dash speed is great for DL who can chase a running back down from behind but not a deal breaker. His stiff hips are, this means his ability to turn and run to the edge is compromised. So Joey Bosa will not be great against the run UNLESS they run directly at him and he is not an elite pass rusher.

"Traditionally, if you talk about a first-round pass-rusher, what comes to mind is an athlete like Von Miller or DeMarcus Ware, defenders who can "bend the edge." What that means, is that they have flexible enough hips and ankles that when they sprint past offensive linemen, they can dip and contort their bodies to the point that offensive tackles can't truly stop them when matched up one-on-one.

Bosa isn't that type of defensive end on film. When he's given space as a defensive end with a free B-gap on his inside, he naturally leans toward the inside alley, which is the shortest distance to the quarterback, but he isn't typical of a game-changing pass-rusher.

Don't get him confused for a Vic Beasley or Khalil Mack type. He's not an edge defender who moves like a linebacker in space. That's not where he wins as a football player. In fact, he's spent a decent amount of time as a 3-technique defensive tackle for Ohio State, where he's won in a phone booth with an arm over swim and counter navigation."

Bleacher report and multiple other sources....you can easily see this on the tape as well.

 

[peplaw06]

He must have been doing something right as a run stopper, cause no one ran at him.

 

[tonyraye]

Adding Bosa by himself would not make much of a difference however you add Bullard/Billings and Ronald Blair in addition to Bosa the DL would be light years better.

I am saying is that Bosa is not that far ahead of the other DL players in this draft, certainly not worthy of the #4. Other teams might love him, but I think he's a bust and at #4 we cannot afford it. I would rather them take Ramsey if they cannot trade down. Remember they resigned Crawford and Thorton. Add 1-2 DE's in the 2nd-5th round and they can hold out for Lawrence and Gregory to come back.

 

[tonyraye]

He must have been doing something right as a run stopper, cause no one ran at him.

Exactly right, run at him and he is stout, run away from him and he is a non factor. Teams will scheme away from him.

 

[peplaw06]

So let me get this straight...

You want him to be a run stopper when teams run away from him?

 

[MrB]

I am saying is that Bosa is not that far ahead of the other DL players in this draft, certainly not worthy of the #4. Other teams might love him, but I think he's a bust and at #4 we cannot afford it. I would rather them take Ramsey if they cannot trade down. Remember they resigned Crawford and Thorton. Add 1-2 DE's in the 2nd-5th round and they can hold out for Lawrence and Gregory to come back.

You need more than 2 guys in you DT rotation though. I'd like to see them add a Billings or Bullard to that DT rotation and then add two DE's. Bosa is definitely not the caliber of edge rusher that Ware or JJ Watt are but he could be Jared Allen level. Is he worth the 4th pick? Not in most drafts he's not. But this is a weak draft at the top and he's the best pass rusher on the board. I would probably lean towards drafting Ramsey instead too but he might not be there at 4.

 

[tonyraye]

You need more than 2 guys in you DT rotation though. I'd like to see them add a Billings or Bullard to that DT rotation and then add two DE's. Bosa is definitely not the caliber of edge rusher that Ware or JJ Watt are but he could be Jared Allen level. Is he worth the 4th pick? Not in most drafts he's not. But this is a weak draft at the top and he's the best pass rusher on the board. I would probably lean towards drafting Ramsey instead too but he might not be there at 4.

Yes but what is the problem with the defense? The lack of sacks and QB pressures. I am a massive believer in building an offense or defense from the line and then make your way from there. A DB cannot cover for more than 5 seconds in this league, and if he can, then he is special. So I ask myself a question, is Bosa going to bring us more sacks? maybe 3-4 a year. 3-4 when we need a 10-12 sack guy. Lawrence has shown the ability to be that guy and he made a mistake, time will tell on him. Bosa will also be a liability on counters, reverses and sweeps because of his inability to turn and run with wr's and rb's at the next level to get to that edge.

So the Cowboys are left with two players (I think Chargers will go Tunsil to protect Rivers), maybe 3 depending on how teams view Jack (who can be special if his knee was not the problem). These 3 players make some teams drool for and MIGHT be willing to sell the farm to move up to get them. If the Cowboys drop back 15-20 spots and pick up a first and 2nd in next years draft they could then trade those picks to pick up a much stronger player in a better draft class (like Fournette). If I was GM, that's what I would be doing.

 

[dbair1967]

40 yard dash speed is great for DL who can chase a running back down from behind but not a deal breaker. His stiff hips are, this means his ability to turn and run to the edge is compromised. So Joey Bosa will not be great against the run UNLESS they run directly at him and he is not an elite pass rusher.

"Traditionally, if you talk about a first-round pass-rusher, what comes to mind is an athlete like Von Miller or DeMarcus Ware, defenders who can "bend the edge." What that means, is that they have flexible enough hips and ankles that when they sprint past offensive linemen, they can dip and contort their bodies to the point that offensive tackles can't truly stop them when matched up one-on-one.

Bosa isn't that type of defensive end on film. When he's given space as a defensive end with a free B-gap on his inside, he naturally leans toward the inside alley, which is the shortest distance to the quarterback, but he isn't typical of a game-changing pass-rusher.

Don't get him confused for a Vic Beasley or Khalil Mack type. He's not an edge defender who moves like a linebacker in space. That's not where he wins as a football player. In fact, he's spent a decent amount of time as a 3-technique defensive tackle for Ohio State, where he's won in a phone booth with an arm over swim and counter navigation."

Bleacher report and multiple other sources....you can easily see this on the tape as well.

There's plenty of clips showing him doing a great job bending and getting the corner on people. he doesn't have the explosive first step people like Ware or Miller have, but he does play with excellent technique and that would probably only get better working with someone like Marinelli.

He also has outstanding hand technique and plays with excellent leverage, many OL look like they are on skates against him.

If he isn't a stoner head, I firmly believe he'll be a really good player.

 

[dbair1967]

I am saying is that Bosa is not that far ahead of the other DL players in this draft, certainly not worthy of the #4. Other teams might love him, but I think he's a bust and at #4 we cannot afford it. I would rather them take Ramsey if they cannot trade down. Remember they resigned Crawford and Thorton. Add 1-2 DE's in the 2nd-5th round and they can hold out for Lawrence and Gregory to come back.

We disagree then, nothing wrong with that.

Only reason I wouldn't pick him is the question over the left handed cigs. Otherwise from strictly a player standpoint I think he'd be an excellent addition.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

Steve Dennis (the same yellow bellied one) on 103.3 is a huge tOSU fan and he was claiming Bosa isn't a drug risk because he made a big show of giving that all up and getting serious his last year. Has anyone else heard that? I thought the story was that Elliott roomed with him and Elliott moved out because he thought Bosa was partying too much.

 

[dbair1967]

Steve Dennis (the same yellow bellied one) on 103.3 is a huge tOSU fan and he was claiming Bosa isn't a drug risk because he made a big show of giving that all up and getting serious his last year. Has anyone else heard that? I thought the story was that Elliott roomed with him and Elliott moved out because he thought Bosa was partying too much.

I'm not sure, have heard conflicting reports.

 

[MrB]

Yes but what is the problem with the defense? The lack of sacks and QB pressures. I am a massive believer in building an offense or defense from the line and then make your way from there. A DB cannot cover for more than 5 seconds in this league, and if he can, then he is special. So I ask myself a question, is Bosa going to bring us more sacks? maybe 3-4 a year. 3-4 when we need a 10-12 sack guy. Lawrence has shown the ability to be that guy and he made a mistake, time will tell on him. Bosa will also be a liability on counters, reverses and sweeps because of his inability to turn and run with wr's and rb's at the next level to get to that edge.

So the Cowboys are left with two players (I think Chargers will go Tunsil to protect Rivers), maybe 3 depending on how teams view Jack (who can be special if his knee was not the problem). These 3 players make some teams drool for and MIGHT be willing to sell the farm to move up to get them. If the Cowboys drop back 15-20 spots and pick up a first and 2nd in next years draft they could then trade those picks to pick up a much stronger player in a better draft class (like Fournette). If I was GM, that's what I would be doing.

You have to have someone willing to trade with you though. With the top two QB's gone a lot of the trade leverage the Cowboys had is gone. They're not going to get a deal like the Titans and Browns got.

I do agree that teams should be built from the inside out. Build the line first and work your way back. That's why I'm saying Bosa, Bullard/Billings, and Rinald Blair in the 4th should be their picks. I expect Ramsey to be selected by the Chargers. Also Bosa is going to be more than 2-3 sack a year kind of guy. He should be about a 7-8 sack a year guy. He's also pretty good against the run.

 

[bvhawkeye]

I love Bosa, but if we can trade down and get say Lawson? perhaps we can get another couple of good DL's in the later rounds? I'm not a big fan of Lawson myself, but we need lots of help

 

[MrB]

I love Bosa, but if we can trade down and get say Lawson? perhaps we can get another couple of good DL's in the later rounds? I'm not a big fan of Lawson myself, but we need lots of help

I'd be happy with that. Although with McClain trying to eat himself out of the league they may need to look at drafting Darren Lee or Reggie Ragland.