DMN: The five best Dallas Cowboys QBs of all-time, ranked

[bbgun]

I never saw him play so really cant comment. White inherited a very strong team with a ton of talent though, whereas Meredith started on a couple of those early year teams that came together in the mid 60's.

Well, yes and no. I loved Danny when he played, and I thought the comparisons to Staubach were unfair because White never had a Doomsday Defense to help him. If you look at the points the Cowboys gave up in those early 80's conference championship games (20, 28, 31) and compare it to some of those 70's conference championship games (10, 3, 7, 6, 0), you can see that White had a higher mountain to climb than Staubach. In the five NFC championship games the Cowboys won in the 70's, Doomsday gave up 26 total points. The knock on White was that he would implode at the worst times and make the game-killing mistake -- kinda like someone we know and love.

 

[onlyonenow]

have to laugh at anyone putting Jimmy ahead of Tom. Ask any coach in the NFL today or 20 years ago and they would bust a gut laughing at you.

What dragged landry down was the absolute diasters that the drafts were starting in the early 80's. Part of that problem was that Bum being a bum refused to fund the scouting staff like Gil wanted. Also Bum would not let Landry put out good money for the staff so he was unable to get really good coaches his last 5-6 years there. The staff was definitely not like it was in the 60's and 70's.

Joe Gibbs is not the only coach that said Tom was NOT slipping. BP said it as well. And I would take their word over you gomers any time.

 

[onlyonenow]

Well, yes and no. I loved Danny when he played, and I thought the comparisons to Staubach were unfair because White never had a Doomsday Defense to help him. If you look at the points the Cowboys gave up in those early 80's conference championship games (20, 28, 31) and compare it to some of those 70's conference championship games (10, 3, 7, 6, 0), you can see that White had a higher mountain to climb than Staubach. In the five NFC championship games the Cowboys won in the 70's, Doomsday gave up 26 total points. The knock on White was that he would implode at the worst times and make the game-killing mistake -- kinda like someone we know and love.

White took over in 79. For that year and the next few we still had one of the best D's in the NFL so frankly you are full of crap. What happened in those Championship games was we got outplayed. Except in 81 where it took that damn catch to beat us and if Drew does not get snagged by his jersey we win that game anyway.

 

[bbgun]

There was a lot more wrong with those 87 and 88 teams than the QB play.

Two wins by the scabs made the season better than it was. That said, Dallas would have actually made the '87 playoffs if they had the 90's playoff format (Cowboys would have been the #6 seed had there been 6 playoff teams per conference).

 

[bbgun]

White took over in 79. For that year and the next few we still had one of the best D's in the NFL so frankly you are full of crap. What happened in those Championship games was we got outplayed. Except in 81 where it took that damn catch to beat us and if Drew does not get snagged by his jersey we win that game anyway.

1980, actually. Know your facts before you start running your mouth. And yes, the defense was getting creaky, resulting in many early 1980s shootouts with San Diego, Frisco, Steelers, Raiders, etc.

 

[Iamtdg]

Or was it that he didn't have a quarterback. Give him Aikman in 89 and I think things would have picked up dramatically, although not to the level Jimmy got them.

Agreed.

 

[Iamtdg]

Listen to these relics forgetting just how bad Landry was at the end. Revisionist history. I loved Landry. Like a lot. But, this notion that there was this huge divide between him and Johnson is what is laughable. I could flip flop between Landry and Johnson all day. It's not an easy call to make.

 

[cmd34]

Or was it that he didn't have a quarterback. Give him Aikman in 89 and I think things would have picked up dramatically, although not to the level Jimmy got them.

The overall roster was pretty bad towards the end. I don't know how much of a difference Troy would have made.

 

[dbair1967]

have to laugh at anyone putting Jimmy ahead of Tom. Ask any coach in the NFL today or 20 years ago and they would bust a gut laughing at you.

I wouldn't put Jimmy ahead of Landry either, but he essentially took possibly the least talented team in history (1-15 89 Cowboys) to back to back super bowl champs in 4 years. That's freaking amazing, especially considering how good the NFC (and especially the NFC East) was then.

What dragged landry down was the absolute diasters that the drafts were starting in the early 80's. Part of that problem was that Bum being a bum refused to fund the scouting staff like Gil wanted. Also Bum would not let Landry put out good money for the staff so he was unable to get really good coaches his last 5-6 years there. The staff was definitely not like it was in the 60's and 70's.

Bum was an awful owner, even worse than Jerry. Brandt was horrible because he started gambling left and right and making insanely stupid draft day decisions (ala Jerry). But Landry was not the same level of coach anymore from 84-88 and it was time to move on.

Joe Gibbs is not the only coach that said Tom was NOT slipping. BP said it as well. And I would take their word over you gomers any time.

I'm sure Gibbs and Parcells both wish Landry had stuck around in lieu of Jimmy coming here.

 

[dbair1967]

White took over in 79. For that year and the next few we still had one of the best D's in the NFL so frankly you are full of crap. What happened in those Championship games was we got outplayed. Except in 81 where it took that damn catch to beat us and if Drew does not get snagged by his jersey we win that game anyway.

Staubach was still the QB in 1979. White took over in 1980

 

[dbair1967]

1980, actually. Know your facts before you start running your mouth. And yes, the defense was getting creaky, resulting in many early 1980s shootouts with San Diego, Frisco, Steelers, Raiders, etc.

The 1980 defense finished 13th in pts allowed, 17th in yards. 1981 they finished 7th in pts and 20th in yds, 1982 they finished 3rd in pts and 11th in yds, 1983 they finished m20th and 17th but finished 2nd overall against the run.

Those teams also had a ton of sacks and feasted off turnovers. There was quite a bit of talent on those defenses, it wasn't Doomsday I or II, but they were better than you are giving them credit for.

 

[bbgun]

I didn't say they were crap; I said they were getting creaky and couldn't hold a mirror to those dominant 1970s defenses. drafting guys like Larry Bethea and Rod Hill will do that.

 

[boozeman]

I didn't say they were crap; I said they were getting creaky and couldn't hold a mirror to those dominant 1970s defenses. drafting guys like Larry Bethea and Rod Hill will do that.

Correct. As good as the Dirty Dozen and the Dorsett heist were, Brandt blew draft after draft after draft thereafter.

Funny thing is his last draft was a departure. He drafted Michael Irvin, Ken Norton and Chad Hennings.

 

[dbair1967]

I didn't say they were crap; I said they were getting creaky and couldn't hold a mirror to those dominant 1970s defenses. drafting guys like Larry Bethea and Rod Hill will do that.

Few could, those were some of the best defenses of all time.

 

[cmd34]

I like how the people who picked Jimmy, including myself, were like "it's close" or "it's a tough call" and the Landry guys were like "YOU GUYZ ARE STUPID!!!"

Objectivity - the quality of being objective.
"the piece lacked any objectivity"
synonyms: impartiality, absence/lack of bias, absence/lack of prejudice, fairness, fair-mindedness, neutrality, evenhandedness, justice, open-mindedness, disinterest, detachment, dispassion, neutrality
"the quest for total objectivity is unrealistic"

Welcome to the Zone!!!

 

[dbair1967]

Funny thing is his last draft was a departure. He drafted Michael Irvin, Ken Norton and Chad Hennings.

The blind squirrel finally found the nut.

78-87 were some really bad years of drafting to say the least.

 

[bbgun]

Funny thing is his last draft was a departure. He drafted Michael Irvin, Ken Norton and Chad Hennings.

not to mention taking a flyer on Walker in '85. Mike Sherrard's brittle leg was sheer bad luck.

 

[cmd34]

not to mention taking a flyer on Walker in '85. Mike Sherrard's brittle leg was sheer bad luck.

Yep. That leadership and Jimmy were incredibly innovative in acquiring talent. Then we get Jerry, who wants to appear innovative, but only takes chances on injuries or character concerns with zero accountability for his many failures.

 

[Doomsday]

I like how the people who picked Jimmy, including myself, were like "it's close" or "it's a tough call" and the Landry guys were like "YOU GUYZ ARE STUPID!!!"

Objectivity - the quality of being objective.
"the piece lacked any objectivity"
synonyms: impartiality, absence/lack of bias, absence/lack of prejudice, fairness, fair-mindedness, neutrality, evenhandedness, justice, open-mindedness, disinterest, detachment, dispassion, neutrality
"the quest for total objectivity is unrealistic"

Welcome to the Zone!!!

I mean.... I am partial to Landry. But push come to shove, I would have a hard time making a hard case for him to be #1 ahead of Jimmy. It's kind of a wash, to me - two guys who were on top of the game, in their era. Who both innovated and forever changed the way the game is played. People forget (or never knew) that today's "upfield pressure" DL play instead of the old "read and react" shit was a Jimmy invention starting with when he coached the Selmon brothers. It didn't take long for upfield pressure to become the standard rather than what was considered a gadget. Today, you never see "read and react" even at the pee-wee level. It's full out attack, upfield pressure that is taught. That's Jimmy's lasting legacy.

 

[theoneandonly]

It is hard for me to see an argument for Jimmy over Landry. Yes it was time to go at the end, but he has an almost 20 year run where you could expect the team to make and go deep in the playoffs every year. He won only two SBs, and there was really no excuse for the Colts loss, but the Steeler teams of the 70s were a little more talented IMO.