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Your reward is you are allowed to post one day in the forum without wearing your Covid mask.i liked your post in both places
I never wear mine but like Democrats I am one of the elites here, I'm allowing you to share in the temporary freedom of no masking. Consider yourself fortunate.
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Some of Clayton Tune's throws there were pretty good.
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Dipshit Murray probably saw him on his Madden video game and started begging the FO to get him.
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McGinn on CB/S
Eleven of the top 30 corners, including seven of the top 10, ran 40 yards in less than 4.4 seconds either at the combine or pro days. Last year, a mere two of the top 30 broke 4.4.
Not one of the evaluators interviewed for this series made a big deal about the speed factor. NFL people lock in on business at hand. All those 4.3s, even 4.2s written on the cards of the cornerbacks on their draft-room wall tend to blend in after a while as deliberations go on and on.
...determining a 40 time for each player.
First, I disregard the electronic times at the combine. Electronic timing isn’t available at most pro days, and trying to compare electronic times with hand-held times is inappropriate.
At the combine, two designated scouts with stopwatches are seated at the finish line of the 40, and immediately their times are recorded by the combine staff. Working from those numbers, I average the times of a player’s first 40, the average of his second 40 (most run two) and then average the two averages for the number that I assign for posterity. If a player runs a 40 or two at a pro day, I’ll average those as best I can with his averages at the combine.
...I’ve used this system for about 20 years. Before that, I went with the fastest of the two hand-held times either at the combine or pro day.
Good or bad, my formula for 40 times has been consistent for a long time.
...It wasn’t just speed this year, either. Seven of the top 30 went 11-0 or more in the broad jump whereas five went 40 inches or higher in the vertical jump. Both drills are reflections of speed as well as explosiveness.
Last spring, the only top-30 corners with sub-4.4 speed were UTSA’s Tariq Woolen (4.26) and Baylor’s Kalon Barnes (4.27). There were eight top-30 corners under 4.4 in. 2021, two in 2020, four in 2019 and four in 2018.
...“In the NFL of today, if you’re a corner and you’re not 4.45 on down, you can’t run,” one personnel man said. “The success rate of 4.55 corners is minimal.”
My poll of 16 evaluators asked them to rank the corners 1-2-3-4-5, with a first-place vote worth 5 points, a second-place worth 4 points and so on. It’s worth noting that 164 of the 240 possible points, or 68.3%, went to corners that ran under 4.4.
Christian Gonzalez led with nine firsts and 70 points. Following, in order, were Devon Witherspoon (67, six), Joey Porter (30, one), Deonte Banks (24 ½), Emmanuel Forbes (20), DJ Turner (nine), Cam Smith (6 ½), Garrett Williams (four), Julius Brents (three), Kelee Ringo (three), Clark Phillips (two) and Darius Rush (one).
As much as scouts admire the group as a whole, they were hesitant to label any one player as elite. The current young players most commonly referred to as falling in that category were Sauce Gardner (6-2 ½, 193, 4.46) and Patrick Surtain II (6-2, 208, 4.42).
Of the corners as a whole, another executive said, “There are probably 12 to 15 guys that can come in and at least be a No. 3 corner in the first year. Eight or so of those could be good No. 2’s. Probably be four to six in the first round.”
Meanwhile, it appears this will be the third draft in the past four years in which no safety has been taken in Round 1.
“This is unbelievable how bad this is,” one scout said. “(Brian) Branch, (Antonio) Johnson and then it’s kind of a free-for-all. It falls quick.”
Branch dominated the 16-scout poll with 13 firsts and 74 points, yet he is considered an underdog for the first round.
The rest of the vote was Johnson (39, one), Quan Martin (28), Sydney Brown (25, one), Jordan Battle (20, one), Jammie Robinson (17), Ji'ayir Brown (12), Jay Ward (seven), JL Skinner (five), Ronnie Hickman (four), Gervarrius Owens (four), Christopher Smith (three) and DeMarcco Hellams (two).
Eleven of the top 30 corners, including seven of the top 10, ran 40 yards in less than 4.4 seconds either at the combine or pro days. Last year, a mere two of the top 30 broke 4.4.
Not one of the evaluators interviewed for this series made a big deal about the speed factor. NFL people lock in on business at hand. All those 4.3s, even 4.2s written on the cards of the cornerbacks on their draft-room wall tend to blend in after a while as deliberations go on and on.
...determining a 40 time for each player.
First, I disregard the electronic times at the combine. Electronic timing isn’t available at most pro days, and trying to compare electronic times with hand-held times is inappropriate.
At the combine, two designated scouts with stopwatches are seated at the finish line of the 40, and immediately their times are recorded by the combine staff. Working from those numbers, I average the times of a player’s first 40, the average of his second 40 (most run two) and then average the two averages for the number that I assign for posterity. If a player runs a 40 or two at a pro day, I’ll average those as best I can with his averages at the combine.
...I’ve used this system for about 20 years. Before that, I went with the fastest of the two hand-held times either at the combine or pro day.
Good or bad, my formula for 40 times has been consistent for a long time.
...It wasn’t just speed this year, either. Seven of the top 30 went 11-0 or more in the broad jump whereas five went 40 inches or higher in the vertical jump. Both drills are reflections of speed as well as explosiveness.
Last spring, the only top-30 corners with sub-4.4 speed were UTSA’s Tariq Woolen (4.26) and Baylor’s Kalon Barnes (4.27). There were eight top-30 corners under 4.4 in. 2021, two in 2020, four in 2019 and four in 2018.
...“In the NFL of today, if you’re a corner and you’re not 4.45 on down, you can’t run,” one personnel man said. “The success rate of 4.55 corners is minimal.”
My poll of 16 evaluators asked them to rank the corners 1-2-3-4-5, with a first-place vote worth 5 points, a second-place worth 4 points and so on. It’s worth noting that 164 of the 240 possible points, or 68.3%, went to corners that ran under 4.4.
Christian Gonzalez led with nine firsts and 70 points. Following, in order, were Devon Witherspoon (67, six), Joey Porter (30, one), Deonte Banks (24 ½), Emmanuel Forbes (20), DJ Turner (nine), Cam Smith (6 ½), Garrett Williams (four), Julius Brents (three), Kelee Ringo (three), Clark Phillips (two) and Darius Rush (one).
As much as scouts admire the group as a whole, they were hesitant to label any one player as elite. The current young players most commonly referred to as falling in that category were Sauce Gardner (6-2 ½, 193, 4.46) and Patrick Surtain II (6-2, 208, 4.42).
Of the corners as a whole, another executive said, “There are probably 12 to 15 guys that can come in and at least be a No. 3 corner in the first year. Eight or so of those could be good No. 2’s. Probably be four to six in the first round.”
Meanwhile, it appears this will be the third draft in the past four years in which no safety has been taken in Round 1.
“This is unbelievable how bad this is,” one scout said. “(Brian) Branch, (Antonio) Johnson and then it’s kind of a free-for-all. It falls quick.”
Branch dominated the 16-scout poll with 13 firsts and 74 points, yet he is considered an underdog for the first round.
The rest of the vote was Johnson (39, one), Quan Martin (28), Sydney Brown (25, one), Jordan Battle (20, one), Jammie Robinson (17), Ji'ayir Brown (12), Jay Ward (seven), JL Skinner (five), Ronnie Hickman (four), Gervarrius Owens (four), Christopher Smith (three) and DeMarcco Hellams (two).
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3. JOEY PORTER, Penn State (6-2 ½, 196, 4.41, 1): Played four games in 2019, preserving his redshirt season, before starting three years on the outside and declaring a year early. “Enigma,” said one scout. “He’s one of these guys that you would hope would be a better pro than he was in college. He’s got all the height-weight-speed you want to be in a first-round corner but his instincts are off. They tried him at nickel; it was an experiment that went awry. He’s an outside corner until further notice. He’s fast, he can turn and run, he can stay in phase, he can run with anybody on a 9-route. But don’t ask him to play off cover and get out of his backpedal with good quickness to close on the football. His value is as a press-trail corner. If you’re drafting him to line up with the other team’s biggest, fastest receiver in press-trail, sure. But eventually they’ll figure him out and force him into situations where he’s going to be uncomfortable. How many interceptions did he have in his career? One. He’s just a naturally timid kid to begin with. I’m not questioning his toughness. I’m questioning his willingness to have a pro mindset prepared to be great. He’ll tackle. He’s not a coward. He’s somewhere in-between.” Finished with 114 tackles (two for loss) and 21 PBUs. “We didn’t like him,” a second scout said. “He’s soft.” Wonderlic of 15. His arm length (34 inches) was the longest at the position. “He’s a 6-2 guy that’s super-fast,” a third scout said. “Good man coverage. Long arms. Not as sticky in coverage as the top guys.” His father, Joey Sr., registered 98 sacks and made four Pro Bowls as a 13-year NFL edge rusher. He coached the Steelers’ linebackers from 2014-’18. “He grew up the son of an NFL player and never wanted for anything,” a fourth scout said. “He’s a good kid but he doesn’t really have a great work ethic or passion for the game. You could really hit on him and you could really bust on him.” From Bakersfield, Calif. “Last year, lot of PI’s (pass-interference penalties),” a fifth scout said. “Little bit rigid and stiff. He’s got to be scheme-specific in terms of press man. I’m lukewarm on him.”
4. DEONTE BANKS, Maryland (6-0, 200, 4.31, 1): Started 21 of 30 games over four years. “Talented guy,” one scout said. “He’s got all the height-weight-speed. The problem with him is, when his back’s turned to the ball, can he find it? That’s his biggest issue. He’s a tough kid; he’ll tackle you. It’s just his natural instincts for the position. Not quite as productive on the ball as you would like.” Just two interceptions to go with 83 tackles and 13 PBUs. “He’s got incredible upside,” said a second scout. “He’s No. 1 or No. 2 in all the athletic testing. He does not have natural ball skills. He’s a developmental upside player you roll the dice on. It’s going to take a little time. I’d say halfway through the first season he’s a starter.” His vertical jump of 42 inches led the position. “That Ohio State game (Nov. 19), man, he was, like, ‘This is my game,’” said a third scout. “He went against (Marvin) Harrison Jr. and those guys and he was good. He talked **** to those guys. The whole game. He can press and run. In run support he’s strong. He can hold up against big wideouts. He just gets a little grabby downfield some but, when he’s locked in, he’s a top-10 talent.” Fourth-year junior with a Wonderlic of 18. “He is mentally raw,” a fourth scout said. “He didn’t play hardly at all in 2021 (out 11 games, shoulder surgery). He’ll be fine. It’s just he may go through some growing pains at first because he’s raw.” From Baltimore.
5. EMMANUEL FORBES, Mississippi State (6-0 ½, 170, 4.38, 1-2): Third-year junior, three-year starter at LC. “I’m a Forbes man,” one scout said. “He’s so skinny and narrow. That body type is just not super conducive. But he has incredible ball skills. He is a ball magnet. It just finds him. He tries to (tackle). In the Georgia game, there was one time he stuck his nose in there and he looked like somebody getting thrown out of a saloon. He got literally ejected out of a pile. At least he tried.” Returned six of his 14 picks for TDs, an FBS record. “Very, very similar to Witherspoon,” a second scout said. “He’s quick, sudden and a loose athlete. He can mirror guys as well. He’s got a second gear.” Weighed 166 at the combine, 170 at pro day. “Because he’s only 166 and has such an unusual body type he’s a little under the radar,” a third scout said. “But he’s got incredible length (32 ¼ arms) and ball skills and instincts. He plays hard, but who’s been a 166-pound corner that’s held up? They’re going to make you tackle.” Finished with 149 tackles and 35 PBUs. Wonderlic of 18. “There’s a lot of buzz with him,” a fourth scout said. “He’s OK, but I don’t think he’s a first-rounder. He’s skinny as ****. Those guys don’t work. They don’t work.” From Grenada, Miss.
6. DJ TURNER, Michigan (5-11, 179, 4.26, 1-2): Fastest man at the combine. “He’s a cover guy,” one scout said. “He’s not strong in run support and he needs to get stronger in contested catch situations. But, boy, he can recover if someone gets a step on him.” Limited to four games as a freshman due to a glute injury. Barely played in 2020, then became a starter in mid-2021. “Even when he’s beat he has the recovery speed to get back into phase,” said a second scout. “Just struggles at the top of routes. Willing tackler, but his lack of size shows when wrapping up.” Finished with 69 tackles, three picks and 20 PBUs. “He might be the best of the group,” a third scout said. “He’s probably the most fluid guy in the draft. I thought he was a good tackler for his size.” From Suwanee, Ga. “He was disappointing,” a fourth scout aid. “He’s a good athlete but he gets beat all the time. Looks like he’s just kind of out there. In the TCU (playoff) game he whiffed on that big tackle (on Quentin Johnston’s 76-yard touchdown reception). More an athlete than a player. Plays small.”
4. DEONTE BANKS, Maryland (6-0, 200, 4.31, 1): Started 21 of 30 games over four years. “Talented guy,” one scout said. “He’s got all the height-weight-speed. The problem with him is, when his back’s turned to the ball, can he find it? That’s his biggest issue. He’s a tough kid; he’ll tackle you. It’s just his natural instincts for the position. Not quite as productive on the ball as you would like.” Just two interceptions to go with 83 tackles and 13 PBUs. “He’s got incredible upside,” said a second scout. “He’s No. 1 or No. 2 in all the athletic testing. He does not have natural ball skills. He’s a developmental upside player you roll the dice on. It’s going to take a little time. I’d say halfway through the first season he’s a starter.” His vertical jump of 42 inches led the position. “That Ohio State game (Nov. 19), man, he was, like, ‘This is my game,’” said a third scout. “He went against (Marvin) Harrison Jr. and those guys and he was good. He talked **** to those guys. The whole game. He can press and run. In run support he’s strong. He can hold up against big wideouts. He just gets a little grabby downfield some but, when he’s locked in, he’s a top-10 talent.” Fourth-year junior with a Wonderlic of 18. “He is mentally raw,” a fourth scout said. “He didn’t play hardly at all in 2021 (out 11 games, shoulder surgery). He’ll be fine. It’s just he may go through some growing pains at first because he’s raw.” From Baltimore.
5. EMMANUEL FORBES, Mississippi State (6-0 ½, 170, 4.38, 1-2): Third-year junior, three-year starter at LC. “I’m a Forbes man,” one scout said. “He’s so skinny and narrow. That body type is just not super conducive. But he has incredible ball skills. He is a ball magnet. It just finds him. He tries to (tackle). In the Georgia game, there was one time he stuck his nose in there and he looked like somebody getting thrown out of a saloon. He got literally ejected out of a pile. At least he tried.” Returned six of his 14 picks for TDs, an FBS record. “Very, very similar to Witherspoon,” a second scout said. “He’s quick, sudden and a loose athlete. He can mirror guys as well. He’s got a second gear.” Weighed 166 at the combine, 170 at pro day. “Because he’s only 166 and has such an unusual body type he’s a little under the radar,” a third scout said. “But he’s got incredible length (32 ¼ arms) and ball skills and instincts. He plays hard, but who’s been a 166-pound corner that’s held up? They’re going to make you tackle.” Finished with 149 tackles and 35 PBUs. Wonderlic of 18. “There’s a lot of buzz with him,” a fourth scout said. “He’s OK, but I don’t think he’s a first-rounder. He’s skinny as ****. Those guys don’t work. They don’t work.” From Grenada, Miss.
6. DJ TURNER, Michigan (5-11, 179, 4.26, 1-2): Fastest man at the combine. “He’s a cover guy,” one scout said. “He’s not strong in run support and he needs to get stronger in contested catch situations. But, boy, he can recover if someone gets a step on him.” Limited to four games as a freshman due to a glute injury. Barely played in 2020, then became a starter in mid-2021. “Even when he’s beat he has the recovery speed to get back into phase,” said a second scout. “Just struggles at the top of routes. Willing tackler, but his lack of size shows when wrapping up.” Finished with 69 tackles, three picks and 20 PBUs. “He might be the best of the group,” a third scout said. “He’s probably the most fluid guy in the draft. I thought he was a good tackler for his size.” From Suwanee, Ga. “He was disappointing,” a fourth scout aid. “He’s a good athlete but he gets beat all the time. Looks like he’s just kind of out there. In the TCU (playoff) game he whiffed on that big tackle (on Quentin Johnston’s 76-yard touchdown reception). More an athlete than a player. Plays small.”
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SAFETIES
1. BRIAN BRANCH, Alabama (5-11 ½, 192, 4.55, 1-2): Played the star position for Nick Saban that Minkah Fitzpatrick manned with aplomb from 2015-’17. “Is he a safety or a nickel?” one scout said. “Is he too slow for nickel, and can he communicate to be a safety? That’s got to be the key. He’s a great football player but he has a few warts on him. He can’t cover for very long (from the slot). That (directing a secondary) is his bugaboo. He’s a great tackler, not a good one. He’s 4.6 for us, but damn can he play football.” Scored 15 on the Wonderlic. “He’s probably the best safety,” said a second scout. “He played that star position in Nick’s defense, which is very tough to play. He’s kind of like a nick (nickel).” A 5-star recruit, he essentially started for three seasons before declaring a year early. “He’s one of those guys that is a better football player than tester,” a third scout said. “He doesn’t fit the profile of an elite athlete because his numbers are pretty pedestrian. But the thing that sets him apart is just the instincts. His movements are much more decisive when he’s on the field. He sees things quicker.” Finished with 172 tackles (19 ½ for loss), four sacks, four picks and 27 PBUs. “He can be a safety much like (Antoine) Winfield,” said a fourth scout. “Kind of that hybrid down safety. More of a short-to-intermediate zone robber. Can match up with some slots. Good in the run game. But I see him as a starting nickel.” From Fayetteville, Ga.
2. QUAN MARTIN, Illinois (5-11, 194, 4.42, 2-3): Started 36 games over five seasons in a secondary that included safeties Kerby Joseph (Lions) and Sydney Brown plus cornerback Devon Witherspoon. Most of his action came as the star defender. “I would take Kerby over this guy because Kerby was bigger,” said one scout. “He can do more than Kerby. Kerby was a rangy dude back there. (Martin) is an undersized, smooth-moving safety. Can play some nickel. Has a chance to be a starter. Lacks some size and strength in press situations. Will give up separation at the top of routes against more physical receivers. There’s upside with him.” Finished with 222 tackles (10 for loss), seven picks and 30 PBUs. “He was their nick but everybody projects him as a free safety like they’re doing with Branch,” said a second scout. “Good football player. Big hitter for his size. Guys that can do both are becoming pretty valuable. He and Branch are going to be valuable commodities.” His vertical jump of 44 was the best by a defensive back. His 11-2 broad jump paced the safeties and demonstrated just how explosive he is. “People didn’t give Lovie Smith enough credit,” a third scout said. “The defensive backs he recruited were pretty good.” From Lehigh Acres, Fla. “He’s fast enough to play outside, he can play safety and he’s played nickel,” a third scout said. “He’s the Swiss Army knife for this year’s class.”
1. BRIAN BRANCH, Alabama (5-11 ½, 192, 4.55, 1-2): Played the star position for Nick Saban that Minkah Fitzpatrick manned with aplomb from 2015-’17. “Is he a safety or a nickel?” one scout said. “Is he too slow for nickel, and can he communicate to be a safety? That’s got to be the key. He’s a great football player but he has a few warts on him. He can’t cover for very long (from the slot). That (directing a secondary) is his bugaboo. He’s a great tackler, not a good one. He’s 4.6 for us, but damn can he play football.” Scored 15 on the Wonderlic. “He’s probably the best safety,” said a second scout. “He played that star position in Nick’s defense, which is very tough to play. He’s kind of like a nick (nickel).” A 5-star recruit, he essentially started for three seasons before declaring a year early. “He’s one of those guys that is a better football player than tester,” a third scout said. “He doesn’t fit the profile of an elite athlete because his numbers are pretty pedestrian. But the thing that sets him apart is just the instincts. His movements are much more decisive when he’s on the field. He sees things quicker.” Finished with 172 tackles (19 ½ for loss), four sacks, four picks and 27 PBUs. “He can be a safety much like (Antoine) Winfield,” said a fourth scout. “Kind of that hybrid down safety. More of a short-to-intermediate zone robber. Can match up with some slots. Good in the run game. But I see him as a starting nickel.” From Fayetteville, Ga.
2. QUAN MARTIN, Illinois (5-11, 194, 4.42, 2-3): Started 36 games over five seasons in a secondary that included safeties Kerby Joseph (Lions) and Sydney Brown plus cornerback Devon Witherspoon. Most of his action came as the star defender. “I would take Kerby over this guy because Kerby was bigger,” said one scout. “He can do more than Kerby. Kerby was a rangy dude back there. (Martin) is an undersized, smooth-moving safety. Can play some nickel. Has a chance to be a starter. Lacks some size and strength in press situations. Will give up separation at the top of routes against more physical receivers. There’s upside with him.” Finished with 222 tackles (10 for loss), seven picks and 30 PBUs. “He was their nick but everybody projects him as a free safety like they’re doing with Branch,” said a second scout. “Good football player. Big hitter for his size. Guys that can do both are becoming pretty valuable. He and Branch are going to be valuable commodities.” His vertical jump of 44 was the best by a defensive back. His 11-2 broad jump paced the safeties and demonstrated just how explosive he is. “People didn’t give Lovie Smith enough credit,” a third scout said. “The defensive backs he recruited were pretty good.” From Lehigh Acres, Fla. “He’s fast enough to play outside, he can play safety and he’s played nickel,” a third scout said. “He’s the Swiss Army knife for this year’s class.”