Your top 3 and how strongly it's your top 3

[cmd34]

Even good teams cant account for what other teams end up doing though.

Hey its a great idea, trade down to 10-15 and still get Elliott plus some other stuff. The problem comes is if you trade down thinking he's "our guy" and somebody else between 5 and whenever we pick takes him, or trades their pick to someone else who ends up taking him.

Always a risk. Again, the good teams evaluate these guys and have a good feel for what other teams are doing. You can't just take a guy at whatever pick because you are fearful that some team might draft him. You need to be strategic and make judgment calls. Who knows, maybe we do that, which explains why we tend to draft 7th round guys in the 4th round.

From the few guys I've been able to talk to who have been in draft rooms it goes down like this. You get to your draft spot and you look at your board. If you have a high grade on a guy, you take him. If you have comparable guys (that you don't love) you move down, if possible within the range that still guarantees you one of those comparable players. If you get an offer that blows your socks off, and again, you aren't in love with the player, you take it. It's a lot of luck but there is skill to it. Jerry is impulsive and changes strategies too often. He doesn't learn from his past draft mistakes, he blames them on nonsensical excuses.

The thing we don't know is the grades the Cowboys put on these players and if they compare to the rest of the league. We were lucky enough to see the Cowboys board two years in a row and we saw some serious discrepancies. I remember (mainly because they were Trojans) that one year we didn't even have Robert Woods or TJ McDonald on our board at all. Which means we wouldn't even have taken those players in the 7th round. The Bills took Woods in the 2nd and the Rams took McDonald in the 3rd. Both players have played fairly well for those teams. Yet, we wouldn't take those guys in the 4th, 5th, 6th, or 7th rounds?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Revis had 8 INT's in 3 years
Sherman had 6 in 2 years (played offense his first 2 years)
Antonio Cromartie had 5

Florida State DB's while Ramsey was there
Ronald Darby had 2
PJ Williams had 4
Lamarcus Joyner had 7
Marquez White (the other starting CB last year) has 2
Derwin James ( a future star/1st round pick) has 0
Lamarcus Brutus has 5

I haven't charted his games or anything but the FSU coaches told me he was rarely targeted and his completion percentage against would show that.

And just watch the tape. I know how dbair likes to spout how Florida State has other good CBs so they couldn't just avoid Ramsey, but yes, they did. Not merely for the fact that he's tremendous but he's like an albatross out there with those long arms playing press.

It's not as much a fear factor is it's the fact that he just doesn't give QBs very, many windows to throw into.

And he's very aware of where the ball is. It's not like Scandrick zoning out everything but his man and having balls whizz right past him. The opportunities aren't there.

 

[dbair1967]

And just watch the tape. I know how dbair likes to spout how Florida State has other good CBs so they couldn't just avoid Ramsey, but yes, they did. Not merely for the fact that he's tremendous but he's like an albatross out there with those long arms playing press.

It's not as much a fear factor is it's the fact that he just doesn't give QBs very, many windows to throw into.

And he's very aware of where the ball is. It's not like Scandrick zoning out everything but his man and having balls whizz right past him. The opportunities aren't there.

Hopefully he works out if we draft him. I'll definitely be pulling for him if we land him.

I just have my doubts though.

 

[tonyraye]

Every draft is different though. It's not like there are four to five surefire franchise players for us to choose from. In a normal year, a CB like Ramsey and a 6-1 linebacker like Jack shouldn't receive top 5 consideration. This year, they are easily two of the top five players available.

They are mid to late firsts round picks in most other drafts in my opinion. If you look at Byron Jones (223 tackles 2 TD's and 8 interceptions), who compares most to Ramsey (181 tackles 3 interceptions 4 FF's and 0 TD's), Jones is faster and more of a playmaker AND was picked int the late first round. To me he is a much better player coming out of college than Ramsey, so why waste a top 5 pick on a player that is not a top 5 player in most drafts? Which is why we should be trading down or even out of this years first round for a pick(s) next year.

Ramsey makes us a much better defense.
Jack makes us a much better defense.

I don't know about much better, but better. I still think the D doesn't do much without a strong D-Line (DT's specifically) to push the pocket and create pressure and force bad throws etc.

Goff or Wentz is a wise investment in our immediate future.

Any QB taken is going to sit too long if Jerry is talking about keeping Romo for 4-5 more years, it was 4-5 more years last year!

Bosa will be a solid starter. Kind of player who might make a Pro Bowl or two. Michael Bennett/Chris Long type impact.

I don't think he will be and with a top 5 pick, you are not looking for a 1-2 probowl player but a player who will be pro bowl materiel regularly and perhaps all-pro. He is very stiff in the games I watch him play and he has very bad balance. Those are things that can't be coached really.

Trading down is incredibly smart in this draft, especially if you can still pull off Jack, Elliott, or even Hargreaves. The strength in this draft is in the 20 to 45 range, so picking up an extra second is basically picking up an extra starter. I just don't trust Jerry to make a good trade.

I couldn't agree more, I would love to see a trade for a next year's first plus extra, this would give us the power to move up next year to a top 5 pick by giving away 2 first round picks and pick up Fournette. Well worth the #4 pick, plus we still have #36 in this years draft. Some team will fall in love with one of the QB's, Ramsey or Mack and want to trade up for them. Maybe we take advantage and grab a few extra picks in the future or in this draft.

 

[dbair1967]

Any QB taken is going to sit too long if Jerry is talking about keeping Romo for 4-5 more years, it was 4-5 more years last year!

Jones can mouth off all he wants about Romo playing 4-5 yrs, but the fact of the matter is Romo's body may not (and in my opinion, almost assuredly not) allow him to. The guy's had multiple back procedures and now has a serious collarbone issue. He's never been much of a workout guy to begin with. When he came back after the injury last year he had almost nothing on the football.

If he was honestly tempted beyond belief to draft that piece of garbage Manziel two yrs ago, I don't see how they can honestly look at three guys (Wentz, Goff and Lynch) who are all EONS more gifted and have EONS more upside, at the same time of not being a grade A dickwads off the field and not seriously consider one of them now.

 

[cmd34]

Romo will be on the books for 2 more years. He will retire after the 2017 season, unless injuries force his hand before.

2 years people.

 

[dbair1967]

Romo will be on the books for 2 more years. He will retire after the 2017 season, unless injuries force his hand before.

2 years people.

On the books, yep.

But on the field and playing at a high level?

Not so sure.

 

[tonyraye]

Jones can mouth off all he wants about Romo playing 4-5 yrs, but the fact of the matter is Romo's body may not (and in my opinion, almost assuredly not) allow him to. The guy's had multiple back procedures and now has a serious collarbone issue. He's never been much of a workout guy to begin with. When he came back after the injury last year he had almost nothing on the football.

Yes but you have to look at the financial side of it as well. Romo's cap hit is too big to release him anytime in the next 3 years. So it's a better option to pick up a QB who will sit 1-2 years instead of 3-4. Romo's body may dictate, as well, when he will leave the game, but the thing I love about Romo is he is a soldier and wanted to go out and play with his first broken collarbone! This tells me he will try to force himself to play for as long as he can.

Romo's Salary cap details

Year Age Base Salary Cap Hit Dead Cap

2016 35 $8,500,000 $20,835,000 $31,935,000
2017 36 $14,000,000 $24,700,000 $19,600,000
2018 37 $19,500,000 $25,200,000 $8,900,000
2019 38 $20,500,000 $23,700,000 $3,200,000

 

[cmd34]

If Romo retires after the 2017 season, there would be a dead money hit of $8.9M on the 2018 salary cap. We would free up $16.3 million on cap room.

Technically, he could be a June 1st cut before the 2017 season, he would count $10.7M in dead money in 2017 and it would free up $14M in cap room (after June 1st). He'd still be on the 2018 cap for $8.9M in dead money.

His base salary in 2018, if he was still playing, would be $19.5M. No way he ever sees that.

 

[Doomsday]

All of this of course is predicated on if he doesn't do a restructure of his deal again?

 

[MrB]

Romo will be on the books for 2 more years. He will retire after the 2017 season, unless injuries force his hand before.

2 years people.

Yup, that is the earliest they can get out from under his contract. That's why Romo has to be on this team for 2 years. Wether he's able to stay on the field for those two years is another story.

Personally I don't think Romo finishes either year, or at least misses big chunks of the next two seasons. So even if they draft a QB I think they still need to bring in a vet.

 

[NoShame]

4 just seems like an epic waste of a pick on a DB that doesnt make plays on the football

You watch any games of his yet? I'm not one to pretend to be a pro scout but Ramsey is gonna be a special player in this league. Love how physical he is, love his attitude and confidence. Can only imagine how good he'll be when he gets to settle into a position unlike at Florida St.

My only concern with him is how he matches up against shifty WRs. Ones that are quick out of their breaks like OBJ. Also, when I watch him I'm concerned he's a better version of Byron Jones. Projecting better at Safety in the pros than at corner.

Best case scenario we have our version of Sherman and Earl Thomas in Ramsey and Jones. Worst case scenario we get two all pro safeties.

 

[MrB]

You watch any games of his yet? I'm not one to pretend to be a pro scout but Ramsey is gonna be a special player in this league. Love how physical he is, love his attitude and confidence. Can only imagine how good he'll be when he gets to settle into a position unlike at Florida St.

My only concern with him is how he matches up against shifty WRs. Ones that are quick out of their breaks like OBJ. Also, when I watch him I'm concerned he's a better version of Byron Jones. Projecting better at Safety in the pros than at corner.

Best case scenario we have our version of Sherman and Earl Thomas in Ramsey and Jones. Worst case scenario we get two all pro safeties.

But no pass rush.

 

[NoShame]

But no pass rush.

DLaw and Crawford are a start. Pothead Gregory is still a big question mark but can't rule him out yet. Rome wasn't built in a day. Just because there's not much of a pass rush now doesn't mean there can't be one. Just gotta keep building this defense like we did that OL.

 

[MrB]

DLaw and Crawford are a start. Pothead Gregory is still a big question mark but can't rule him out yet. Rome wasn't built in a day. Just because there's not much of a pass rush now doesn't mean there can't be one. Just gotta keep building this defense like we did that OL.

I just think that a defense should be built from the inside out. If they are going to go all out to rebuild the defense I would prefer their main focus be on the DL. Again if they are going all out on defense I'd like to see them trade back and draft one of the stud DT's.

 

[tonyraye]

You watch any games of his yet? I'm not one to pretend to be a pro scout but Ramsey is gonna be a special player in this league. Love how physical he is, love his attitude and confidence. Can only imagine how good he'll be when he gets to settle into a position unlike at Florida St.

My only concern with him is how he matches up against shifty WRs. Ones that are quick out of their breaks like OBJ. Also, when I watch him I'm concerned he's a better version of Byron Jones. Projecting better at Safety in the pros than at corner.

Best case scenario we have our version of Sherman and Earl Thomas in Ramsey and Jones. Worst case scenario we get two all pro safeties.

I've watched several of his games, the best thing I like about him is his ability to come off the corner and blitz and his willingness to tackle anyone. This is why he will be a better safety than corner. Jones was better in every aspect than Ramsey, the difference is Jones played at UConn and not Florida St, not as much press coverage. Ramsey is a poor man's Jones and we would end up with two safeties. It's not what is needed in my opinion. The Cowboys need a pass rush from the D-Line and no one in this draft is going to help with that, that is worthy of the #4.

 

[dbair1967]

You watch any games of his yet? I'm not one to pretend to be a pro scout but Ramsey is gonna be a special player in this league. Love how physical he is, love his attitude and confidence. Can only imagine how good he'll be when he gets to settle into a position unlike at Florida St.

My only concern with him is how he matches up against shifty WRs. Ones that are quick out of their breaks like OBJ. Also, when I watch him I'm concerned he's a better version of Byron Jones. Projecting better at Safety in the pros than at corner.

Best case scenario we have our version of Sherman and Earl Thomas in Ramsey and Jones. Worst case scenario we get two all pro safeties.

Yeah I've seen some of his games, FSU is on TV a lot here in Atlanta.

I am not saying he is a terrible prospect or a lousy player. I just don't really see a true difference maker. He is flexible and you can play him in a number of places (kinda like Jones) so that's a plus, and he isn't shy to contact and can hit. He's a good blitzer.

I'd strongly prefer to go QB, DL or Elliott before Ramsey though.

 

[MrB]

Yeah I've seen some of his games, FSU is on TV a lot here in Atlanta.

I am not saying he is a terrible prospect or a lousy player. I just don't really see a true difference maker. He is flexible and you can play him in a number of places (kinda like Jones) so that's a plus, and he isn't shy to contact and can hit. He's a good blitzer.

I'd strongly prefer to go QB, DL or Elliott before Ramsey though.

And because he can play both safety and CB that is exactly how the Cowboys would use him. Just like Jones he'll bounce between both positions all year. He won't be allowed to just focus on one position. And with no pass rush he will get beat from time to time.

 

[ravidubey]

Franchise QB (if there is one)
Buckner (sadly based on need)
Elliott (my heart's pick)

 

[NoShame]

I've watched several of his games, the best thing I like about him is his ability to come off the corner and blitz and his willingness to tackle anyone. This is why he will be a better safety than corner. Jones was better in every aspect than Ramsey, the difference is Jones played at UConn and not Florida St, not as much press coverage. Ramsey is a poor man's Jones and we would end up with two safeties. It's not what is needed in my opinion. The Cowboys need a pass rush from the D-Line and no one in this draft is going to help with that, that is worthy of the #4.

What? No.