Who Here is Not Entirely Sold on Dak Prescott?

[Doomsday]

For the most part the roster is set up to win now,

The totally revamped roster that's coming or the one Dak had his first four years? I think the window on the roster getting it done closed pretty much at the end of 2018. Jerry's pat hand petered out pretty quick.

There's not going to be a ton of returnees for 2020.

 

[Doomsday]

Guys who shouldnt get market setting contracts do, but it's only temporary until the next guy/guys reset the market.

But that's the rub. Dak isn't signed yet because he wants a short term deal, so he can soon come right back and chisel out more from us AFTER the market is reset.

He gambled and lost but we raised the stakes anyway so he can gamble again with his new contract, if he loses that bet too he will then be asking for even more! It's not really pretty much the same.

 

[dbair1967]

The totally revamped roster that's coming or the one Dak had his first four years? I think the window on the roster getting it done closed pretty much at the end of 2018. Jerry's pat hand petered out pretty quick.

There's not going to be a ton of returnees for 2020.

Fred is a loss, but the OL if healthy is still really good, and I do think one of the 3 guys currently here can play C at a decent level, maybe even a high level. Our top-2 WR's are as good as anyones. We have an elite RB. We have a few pieces on defense and they seem to be dedicated to really addressing special teams and the DT position.

I said the roster "for the most part" was a win now roster. They obviously still need help in some other areas.

 

[dbair1967]

But that's the rub. Dak isn't signed yet because he wants a short term deal, so he can soon come right back and chisel out more from us AFTER the market is reset.

He gambled and lost but we raised the stakes anyway so he can gamble again with his new contract, if he loses that bet too he will then be asking for even more! It's not really pretty much the same.

I dont think he gambled and lost, he had some huge games last yr and his numbers were quite good overall.

He also has been handcuffed by a lousy HC and staff.

If anything a short term deal now (even at market setting money) is somewhat of a bigger gamble. There's a new HC and philosophy in place now, and even though McCarthy said the terminology of the scheme will remain in place, you know there will be a lot of new stuff in the offense. McCarthy also has a tremendous track record of QB development. If Prescott signs a short term deal and struggles, it actually makes it easier for us to move on if he doesnt play at the level McCarthy envisions.

 

[nickb]

dak has had everything in his favor except for being saddled w/ dumbass garrett

wentz has been very lucky w/ pederson, reich, & defilippo

And thats b/c that FO knows how to do it right and put the pieces in the right place so not lucky but smart and prepared (granted there is always a slight element of luck b/c nothing is 100%)
Roseman is known as a crafty and smart GM and seems to hit on his moves more than not
We have a FO that treats everyone "like family" and tends to get way too emotional when it comes time to negotiating

 

[nickb]

Coaching matters.

Unless you are going to go full fucktard and try to tell us Prescott and the others on this team have really maxed out their skills because of Red Headed Goober and his Keystone Copys assistant group.

Won't disagree with you there so this will be the year to find out assuming you believe McCarthy is a better coach than the Clapping Hemorrhoid
I don't think Dak's ceiling is what Wentz's is though but if Dak's talent can be maximized he's not far behind
And though coaching matters so does the raw talent that needs to be there to be coached...either way BIG year for Dak which is why the franchise tag makes absolute sense until McCarthy stops the lip service and PC quotes and really believes Dak can do it

 

[nickb]

Sure it's relevant. At times he has played extremely well, even with a knuckleheaded coaching staff that was extremely weak around game planning and in-game adjustments. He'll now be playing for a HC and staff that has track record for getting the most out of QB's and the HC is on record saying he thinks Prescott can play at an extremely high level.

I don't like the idea of him being the top-paid guy at his position, unfortunately all of sports free agency works pretty much the same. Guys who shouldnt get market setting contracts do, but it's only temporary until the next guy/guys reset the market.

They clearly don't have any other legit alternatives (most teams don't, there's been a shortage of good QB's for a long time), they could potentially draft a guy early but there's no guarantee that guy will play well or pan out at all, and it's very likely the team would take a significant step backward the first year or so, perhaps longer. For the most part the roster is set up to win now, so rebuilding the QB spot completely would probably not be prudent.

(sorry don't know how to just copy snippets to respond to so this is in response to your last paragraph)
And in there lies my major gripe with this FO is the lack of planning and now backing yourself into the corner you are now in..."afraid' to lose Dak but not ballsy enough to go make something else happen where you are now essentially bidding against yourself
This is so cliche but there are no guarantees in life including Dak dramatically improving under McCarthy but it would seem that is better alternative then letting Dak go and looking for someone else
Random question for you: Would you have been ok with the Cowboys placing the non-exclusive tag on Dak? I thought it would have been a win-win for the Cowboys meaning I do not think any other team is paying him $35M/yr, so we can reset his price to match any offer, and not sure any team gives up 2 first rounders for him but if they did, and you believed 1 of the QBs coming out this year was better than Dak, then go get him.

 

[nickb]

Fred is a loss, but the OL if healthy is still really good, and I do think one of the 3 guys currently here can play C at a decent level, maybe even a high level. Our top-2 WR's are as good as anyones. We have an elite RB. We have a few pieces on defense and they seem to be dedicated to really addressing special teams and the DT position.

I said the roster "for the most part" was a win now roster. They obviously still need help in some other areas.

I think the player I want to see the most is Jarwin especially in McCarthy's West Coast offense
I loved the Clinton-Dix signing, more so b/c we don't have to see Heath any longer and I like the Dline signings though getting Griffen would be the icing on the cake
I do worry about the Oline as it is aging and Fred is a HUGE loss on the middle

 

[Number1]

Coaching matters.

Unless you are going to go full fucktard and try to tell us Prescott and the others on this team have really maxed out their skills because of Red Headed Goober and his Keystone Copys assistant group.

ownership matters too

I didn't like JG at HC ... but in all fairness the QBs he developed were not the problem. And he didn't hire the staff.

 

[dbair1967]

Random question for you: Would you have been ok with the Cowboys placing the non-exclusive tag on Dak? I thought it would have been a win-win for the Cowboys meaning I do not think any other team is paying him $35M/yr, so we can reset his price to match any offer, and not sure any team gives up 2 first rounders for him but if they did, and you believed 1 of the QBs coming out this year was better than Dak, then go get him.

No, I think it would have been incredibly stupid to do that.

Some team that needs a starting QB and drafts towards the end of the 1st round likely would jump all over him (somebody like New England) and then all you've gotten for your legit starting QB is two late 1st rd picks, one of which will be valued as a 2nd rounder in this years draft. That's assinine.

He could still be traded, it's just now the Cowboys are in position to demand what they deem true value for him. Two late 1sts in not good enough value for me to think about letting Prescott go.

Lastly, there is absolutely no guarantee any of the QB;s in this draft will be as good as Prescott, and you don't know for certain if any of them will be available by the time we get on the clock either.

 

[dbair1967]

ownership matters too

I didn't like JG at HC ... but in all fairness the QBs he developed were not the problem. And he didn't hire the staff.

He did hire the staff, every fucking one of them.

And neither Romo nor Prescott were ever going to be as good as they could ahve been while being coached by REAL damn coaches.

The owner and GM deserves 100% blame for sticking with Red-tard as long as he did, but that doesn't excuse Garrett for being a complete fuck-up as a HC.

 

[Number1]

He did hire the staff, every fucking one of them.

and how you know this?

 

[dbair1967]

and how you know this?

Just watch all the reports my friend.

Garrett hired who he wanted and got Jerry and Stevie to dispose of the ones he didnt (like Callahan)

 

[Number1]

Just watch all the reports my friend.

Garrett hired who he wanted and got Jerry and Stevie to dispose of the ones he didnt (like Callahan)

naw, don't believe it

 

[dbair1967]

naw, don't believe it

Why do you think he stripped Callahan of playcalling duties was the reason he eventually left?

Jerry doesn't have a fucking clue who any of the coaches are anymore.

 

[nickb]

No, I think it would have been incredibly stupid to do that.

Some team that needs a starting QB and drafts towards the end of the 1st round likely would jump all over him (somebody like New England) and then all you've gotten for your legit starting QB is two late 1st rd picks, one of which will be valued as a 2nd rounder in this years draft. That's assinine.

He could still be traded, it's just now the Cowboys are in position to demand what they deem true value for him. Two late 1sts in not good enough value for me to think about letting Prescott go.

Lastly, there is absolutely no guarantee any of the QB;s in this draft will be as good as Prescott, and you don't know for certain if any of them will be available by the time we get on the clock either.

Yeah but we would have the right to match any offer and no chance in hell New England pays what he is asking for so I wouldn't think New England would be in the mix...and if we don't like the picks being at the end of the round we then match the offer which I can't imagine will be far from what is already being discussed
My thought was more Miami or Los Angeles and though I fundamentally agree, we don't know if any of these coming out are better than Dak, what if the FO thought so, for better or for worse
Plus, since I truly believe we are negotiating against ourselves with Dak, that could potentially set his market value based on what other clubs think and gives us more leverage when negotiating

 

[Number1]

Why do you think he stripped Callahan of playcalling duties was the reason he eventually left?

JG was done when somehow they iced Austin's PR vs MIN - that was unforgiveable

umm … why was Callahan ever hired? … JJ insisted
why was Linehan every hired?... JJ

 

[dbair1967]

JG was done when somehow they iced Austin's PR vs MIN - that was unforgiveable

umm … why was Callahan ever hired? … JJ insisted
why was Linehan every hired?... JJ

I don't think either of these is true.

Callahan wasnt hired to be the playcaller originally, he was just the OL coach. Jones then stripped Garrett of playcalling duties after the 2012 season, but Garrett never wanted him calling plays and eventually took it away from him.

And Linehan was hired because of ties to Garret, Garrett worked with him and they had the same type of philosophy and scheme.

 

[Doomsday]

 

[dbair1967]

^^^Zoners