Junk/Sturm inspired this thread. Why do Cowboys suck at the draft so bad?

[Midswat]

I'll try to find it but I saw a post from Adam where it had the Cowboys as the top paying team for UDFA's for like 5 out of 6 years. The recent CBA altered the UDFA bidding process and I remember another article this past year saying how that would hurt and limit Jerry, again stating that we are one of the top paying teams. I will post when I find them.

Only post when your thoughts support my stance.

If you want to remain on staff, that is.

 

[cmd34]

Only post when your thoughts support my stance.

If you want to remain on staff, that is.

My apologies. Deleting previous post now.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

What about Rock Slamdance's status? He hasn't posted here in weeks.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

I'll try to find it but I saw a post from Adam where it had the Cowboys as the top paying team for UDFA's for like 5 out of 6 years. The recent CBA altered the UDFA bidding process and I remember another article this past year saying how that would hurt and limit Jerry, again stating that we are one of the top paying teams. I will post when I find them.

Right. And even this year with the new CBA limiting salaries, teams can pay more of it in guaranteed money, which is what Jerry did with Leary.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I liked it better thinking that everyones wants to be a Cowboy which is why they sign here as UDFAs.

 

[superpunk]

deadlines.

Players who enter the Supp have had their draft eligibility changed..academic issues, booted off team, coaching change they didn't like, etc... since the regular draft's deadline.

That makes sense.

 

[dbair1967]

Give me a break, dbair. Other than the Romo one in 2010, what you listed wasn't even serious as NFL injury situations go. The Giants were worse off than us with had several guys on IR last year. LG? Losing your LG is nothing.

And even regarding 2010, how about Houston losing their starting QB (and backup) and best defensive player for the year? What about the Patriots going 11-5 the year Brady was lost the first game of the year?

Yet somehow those teams carry on and manage win.

yeah ok...its only serious injuries for other teams...we never have any of our players hurt and miss time, or play through serious issues...our draft picks the last few years havent been devastated by injuries, that was all my imagination

good grief

 

[cmd34]

yeah ok...its only serious injuries for other teams...we never have any of our players hurt and miss time, or play through serious issues...our draft picks the last few years havent been devastated by injuries, that was all my imagination

good grief

you do realize that some of those drafted players by us were injured already right? and then we drafted them ? already being injured ? you get that no?

 

[dbair1967]

And I'm suggesting you have no idea what you're talking about.

I mean, look at your list.

Stephen Peterman hasn't been here his entire career virtually. And our coaching staff gave up on him. He plays a position we suck at and have for year.

Orlando Scandrick has been about as consistant as diareah.

You listed John Phillips? Listen, we all have hope for the guy but you know you're reaching when you have to list a third year back up TE who missed all of his second year.


If Chris Carter read your post he'd go C'MON MAN!!!! brought to you by Geico

Do you have any clue what you are talking about? Or just throwing shit out there with no proof or facts at all?

What % of late rd picks do you think reasonably turn into starters? Hell for that matetr, what % even turn into quality contributors. Its a known fact that the later a player is picked, the less likely they are to stick, make a significant impact or turn into quality starters, and many take several years to develop.

Its too soon to know much about this draft or last years draft, btu now that I have it pulled up in front of me, here you go:

2010- Lissemore and Josh Brent, who was a supp pick. Both 7th rounders, both have played roles and Lissemore appears to be heading towards a starting DL job

2009- draft as a hole was awful, but Victor Butler and John Phillips are nice role players. Phillips may have an extensive role this year as the #2 TE

2008- Tashard Choice, orlando Scandrick...niether player is great, but both played decent roles and Scandrick is a decent nickel CB

2007- Doug Free, Nick Folk...most forget Folk was automatic his first two years before getting hurt, and made the probowl

2006- Hatcher is it, but he's improved quite a bit and had a pretty decent year last yr as a starting DL

2005- Barber, Canty and Ratliff...pretty outstanding group of late rounders

2004- Peterman (solid starter elsewhere, never should have let him go so soon) and Patrick Crayton

2003- Witten, Bradie James

Its not great and it does need to get better, but it isnt horrible either IMO. I'd like to see similar posts from other teams.

 

[dbair1967]

you do realize that some of those drafted players by us were injured already right? and then we drafted them ? already being injured ? you get that no?

two right?

 

[dbair1967]

I think it's because Jerry is willing to pay up and simply outbid other teams for the best undrafted free agents. In the draft everyone is equal, but as soon as it's over the teams with the biggest bankrolls have a big advantage.

.

Jerry didnt vastly overpay for the rookie free agents, this info was released every year and several of the guys we gave the higher bonuses to didnt even make the team

every team usualyl had 1 or 2 UDFA's that they paid a premium to sign and IIRC Romo was actually offered more money elsewhere (Denver for one) and chose here because of the opportunity

 

[dbair1967]

Seems like when AdamJT posts his UFA thread with all the salaries and bonuses paid, there are usually a couple of players who are paid near the top of the league for UFAs. Not everyone of course -- a lot of these guys are just camp bodies.

and several teams pay top money to other guys...we dont get all the big name UDFA's, in fact most years we only get a couple or so anyone has even heard of

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

I never said he vastly overpaid, and I never said we got all the big name UDFAs.

Good grief.

 

[Iamtdg]

It's because the early picks are easy to choose as there is a lot of good talent in the early rounds. As that talent is diluted, the decisions on who to select gets harder. Since Jerry has no frickin clue what he is doing, it gets even worse when the talent pool gets more shallow.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Shallower.

 

[Iamtdg]

You probably are thinking swallower, but I won't judge you.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Always have.

 

[junk]

Out of curiosity, I started a comparison spreadsheet. I've only gotten through GB and Dallas so far.

Since 2007, looking at rounds 3-7:

Dallas: 13 picks are still on the roster, 11 are out of the league, 9 are on other rosters
Green Bay: 14 picks are still on roster, 4 are out of the league, 11 are on other rosters

Dallas: 2 starters (Free and Murray)
Significant Contributors: Lissemore, Brent, Nagy, Scandrick
Others of Note: AOA (back after being cut), Nick Folk (NYJ), Erik Walden (GB)

Green Bay: 6 starters (Desmond Bishop, Mason Crosby, Jermichael Finley, Josh Sitton, T.J. Lang, Morgan Burnett)
Significant Contributors: Marshall Newhouse (13 starts last year), James Jones, Jordy Nelson
Others of Note: Matt Flynn

 

[junk]

Some other random thoughts:

- I think it was in War Room when they were talking about the Patriots draft philosophy for mid to late rounds. Something along the lines that, at that point, the players all have holes in their game, so you need to decide what you want. A guy with measurables, but not production. A guy with production, but might not have the measureables, etc. This could vary round to round or draft to draft, I suppose, but it would be interesting to see how Dallas evaluates.

- They also talked about how when rating picks, you should discuss who on the roster that player will replace (either now or in the future). I'm not sure Dallas is great at that. I think they see they have someone at a position that they either like or is performing and they are reluctant to draft there again. Lesean McCoy in 2009 is a great example.

- I think Dallas has a tendency to do certain things in certain rounds. For example, I think the 2nd is their "gambling" round. Take a chance on a guy with talent coming back from injury (Carter, Lee). Take a chance on a talented knucklehead (Bennett). Trade for the shot at an elite corner. I think the 4th is their "small school/athleticism" round. Doug Free, Stanback, AOA, Matt Johnson, David Arkin.

 

[Hoofbite]

Pretty damn simple.

When you try to score on a "project" or small school players, you usually fuck yourself.

Stanglass, AOA, Brewster, Jason Williams......

That's two 3rd rounders and a two 4th rounders.

I think Dallas has been playing the early rounds pretty well over the past few years in terms of taking guys who most can identify as reasonable picks but when it comes to the middle and later rounds they try to outsmart the rest of the league and take some guy who nobody has ever heard of.