Doomsday

High Plains Drifter
Messages
21,397
Reaction score
3,792

Interesting tidbit:
Part of the problem was not fitting the scheme to the players. Defensive linemen used to attacking upfield to disrupt plays were now asked to hold up blockers. Linebackers did not play downhill and were often late in making their decisions or were gobbled up by bigger offensive linemen.
Just what I had observed. Nolan ditched the modern upfield pressure scheme and reverted us back to the ancient way of "read and react." That garbage went the way of the DoDo 30 years ago when Jimmy brought his upfield pressure scheme to the NFL. Here's more:
Owner and general manager Jerry Jones was eager to move away from the scheme the Cowboys used in McCarthy's first year because he thought it was too simplistic.
No, you imbecile idiot. The opposite was true. It was TOO COMPLICATED AND NOT AT ALL INTUITIVE.
 

Jerseycowboysfan

Practice Squad
Messages
326
Reaction score
129

Interesting tidbit:

Just what I had observed. Nolan ditched the modern upfield pressure scheme and reverted us back to the ancient way of "read and react." That garbage went the way of the DoDo 30 years ago when Jimmy brought his upfield pressure scheme to the NFL. Here's more:
No, you imbecile idiot. The opposite was true. It was TOO COMPLICATED AND NOT AT ALL INTUITIVE.
Let’s hope by simplistic he means “ easy to figure out how to beat “. So they need to go to a more disguised defense and not show their hand .
 

Doomsday

High Plains Drifter
Messages
21,397
Reaction score
3,792
Let’s hope by simplistic he means “ easy to figure out how to beat “
He doesn't know what he means. He doesn't know anything about it. Otherwise there is no way he would let Nolan put us on the ancient "read and react" shit.
So they need to go to a more disguised defense and not show their hand .
That's exactly what Nolan said his scheme was.

Again, it ain't the scheme. It's whether your players are a good fit for it, and it's whether they buy into it or not. But shit, "read and react" is so ancient it's not taught anymore, not even in peewee, jr. high, HS, college, anywhere. Because it's stupid.
 

Doomsday

High Plains Drifter
Messages
21,397
Reaction score
3,792
The fucking idea of "read and react" is to use fat slow DTs in the middle to collect and tie up blockers. So ostensibly the linebackers then make the stops. It's so fucking ancient it might as well be written in hieroglyphics.
 

LAZARUS_LOGAN

Pro Bowler
Messages
14,639
Reaction score
207

Because the Falcons were dominant against the pass and that D really stood out
McCarthy needs to get uncomfortable with his next hire and not keep dipping back into his well of known

The Panthers and Falcons pass defense in completions was ranked #25 and #26, respectively, compared to the Cowboys at #13.

The Panthers and Falcons pass defense in yards allow was ranked #18 and #32 (DEAD LAST), respectively, compared to the Cowboys at #11.

Cowboys and Falcons were ranked #29 and #30 in TDs allowed.

Panthers ranked #31 in INTs.

The Panthers, Cowboys, and Falcons pass defense in QB ratings allowed was ranked #25, #26, #27, respectively.

Overall, the Cowboys pass defense was better than both the Panthers and Falcons...so why are we looking at the passing game coordinators from both teams that basically were among the worse in passing defense? As opposed to the ones from the Steelers, Rams, or even the WFR, that had top-ranked defenses? This is beyond idiotic.
 

LAZARUS_LOGAN

Pro Bowler
Messages
14,639
Reaction score
207
OK, so you support the idea that the HC shouldn't hire people he wants to work with.

Maybe you think it's a good idea for Jerry to try and assemble the head coaches staff for him, because you know, that'w worked so well post-Jimmy.
He wanted to work with Nolan, and how did that turn out?
 

LAZARUS_LOGAN

Pro Bowler
Messages
14,639
Reaction score
207

When Quinn was the DC for the Seahawks, the Seahawks pass D had the Legion of Boom, and they were ranked #1 in fewest pass yards allowed, #1 in INTs, #2 in TDs allowed, #1 in QB fewest ratings, and #8 in sacks. Ranked #8 against the run.

Now I'm not expecting him to do all of this for the Cowboys right away, but is it too much to expect him to be significantly better than Nolan?
 

Scot

Pro Bowler
Messages
14,675
Reaction score
5,978
When Quinn was the DC for the Seahawks, the Seahawks pass D had the Legion of Boom, and they were ranked #1 in fewest pass yards allowed, #1 in INTs, #2 in TDs allowed, #1 in QB fewest ratings, and #8 in sacks. Ranked #8 against the run.

Now I'm not expecting him to do all of this for the Cowboys right away, but is it too much to expect him to be significantly better than Nolan?

Those are great stats

But like you said, that was when he had the Legion of Boom

What have his stats been like without the legion of boom?
 

Scot

Pro Bowler
Messages
14,675
Reaction score
5,978
Dan Quinn is our new DC


So it’s apparently out with the new scheme and back in with the old defensive scheme once again
 

Doomsday

High Plains Drifter
Messages
21,397
Reaction score
3,792
apparently out with the new scheme
"New" scheme that was long obsolete. You have it backwards.
old defensive scheme
Upfield pressure with linebackers playing downhill isn't old. It's Jimmy's stack/slide D. And what Quinn does in the backend wouldn't be considered old either.
 

Scot

Pro Bowler
Messages
14,675
Reaction score
5,978
"New" scheme that was long obsolete. You have it backwards.

Upfield pressure with linebackers playing downhill isn't old. It's Jimmy's stack/slide D. And what Quinn does in the backend wouldn't be considered old either.

New as in the one we used this season (which was new to our players) and old as in the one we ran in the decades prior to last season
 

Doomsday

High Plains Drifter
Messages
21,397
Reaction score
3,792
New as in the one we used this season (which was new to our players) and old as in the one we ran in the decades prior to last season
It was "new" to our players because it hasn't even been taught in decades. It's obsolete. Nolan figured it would "confuse" QBs and OCs but all it did was make them laugh and confuse our players. There was nothing at all new about what he tried.

"Ran in the decades prior" but definitely in a non-committal half-assed way. Lots of teams do it right, Buffalo among them.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
Messages
54,700
Reaction score
6,033
Again, it ain't the scheme. It's whether your players are a good fit for it, and it's whether they buy into it or not. But shit, "read and react" is so ancient it's not taught anymore, not even in peewee, jr. high, HS, college, anywhere. Because it's stupid.
Some of it was the scheme, it had a lot of flaws in it and people that dissect game film and offensive/defensive plays for a living even said so.

That said, there wasn't a plethora of talent there and the talent we did have a lot of them were hurt or missed a lot of time. What was available though appeared to be grossly mis-used.

Bottom line is Nolan had to go, he did a lousy job.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
Messages
54,700
Reaction score
6,033
The Panthers and Falcons pass defense in completions was ranked #25 and #26, respectively, compared to the Cowboys at #13.

The Panthers and Falcons pass defense in yards allow was ranked #18 and #32 (DEAD LAST), respectively, compared to the Cowboys at #11.

Cowboys and Falcons were ranked #29 and #30 in TDs allowed.

Panthers ranked #31 in INTs.

The Panthers, Cowboys, and Falcons pass defense in QB ratings allowed was ranked #25, #26, #27, respectively.

Overall, the Cowboys pass defense was better than both the Panthers and Falcons...so why are we looking at the passing game coordinators from both teams that basically were among the worse in passing defense? As opposed to the ones from the Steelers, Rams, or even the WFR, that had top-ranked defenses? This is beyond idiotic.

Our pass defense sucked for most of the year. We ranked near the bottom of the league in QB rating against and TD-INT ratio. We also ranked in the lower half of the league in sacks (again).

The only reason some of the raw numbers looked "better" is because the run defense was historically bad.

Lastly, the Panthers and Falcons have less talent than we do.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
Messages
54,700
Reaction score
6,033
He wanted to work with Nolan, and how did that turn out?

Obviously it didn't, but if you want the HC to have the best chance of success you let him pick his guys and implement his philosophy/views etc etc. Other than Parcells, none of the Cowboy head coaches post-Jimmy controlled the staff until McCarthy.

You can't complain about Jerruh's meddling when he pulls the puppet strings and then turn around and complain when he stays out of it and lets the coach actually coach, even if you don't like the results. McCarthy made a bad hire, but to his credit he made a move to correct it after an epic bad season.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
Messages
54,700
Reaction score
6,033
Dan Quinn is our new DC


So it’s apparently out with the new scheme and back in with the old defensive scheme once again

While there might be some similarities, Quinn's defensive style/sets are a little different than Marinelli's were.

I'm not enough of an expert to post all the differences but I was reading some of the comments by those who study this stuff, and they all noted his style of defense is a little different.
 
Top Bottom