Doomsday

High Plains Drifter
I realize its been 15 years or so since we've done that kind of thing around here, so maybe that's why you don't understand the philosophy.
You must have slept through last season where we did do a lot of that, putting Smith outside for gadget fun. He was NOT effective on the edge and NOT effective as a blitzer and didn't boost our QB pressure. Did you notice our D sort of went to shit last year compared to previous?

Maybe as pointed out earlier, our beefing up of the middle in the DL will help make this work somewhat better. We'll see. But you're still putting a guy with a spinal defect NOT in the best position for him or his condition. In fact it's just the opposite of the philosophy.

Smith is a stud at MIKE but wants to flash at pass rush. They're risking LVE more just to appease him.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
I don't know what the % of blitz looks we used or specifically used J Smith as a rusher on, but he is a pretty decent pass rusher and was at Notre Dame as well (in fact they used him a lot as a DE in pass rush situations there)

He has 7.5 sacks in his career here as well, and I do know that while we traditionally have ranked towards the bottom of the league in blitz %, when they have showed "blitz success rate" type numbers, we rank pretty high.

In terms of your comment about the D going down the shitter last yr, not sure what you would say to prove that. in 2019 we allowed 321 pts, in 2018 we allowed 324 pts. in 2019 we ranked 9th in total defense, in 2018 it was 7th. QB rating against us was actually better last yr (lower) than 2018. We had the exact same number of sacks both seasons. Turnovers were miserable both seasons but really no different.

I also don't agree that Smith is a "stud" at MLB. I think he is a quality starter, but far from a "stud".

You also still don't seem to understand the concept of "we don't play a base defense the majority of the time". LVE isnt going to be lining up as a true MLB very often, and even when he does because the game has changed so much the physical pounding he would take there is nowhere near the level if was for MLB's 15-20 years ago, or even 10 years ago. It's a passing league, a finesse league.
 

Doomsday

High Plains Drifter
You also still don't seem to understand the concept of "we don't play a base defense the majority of the time". LVE isnt going to be lining up as a true MLB very often, and even when he does because the game has changed so much the physical pounding he would take there is nowhere near the level if was for MLB's 15-20 years ago, or even 10 years ago. It's a passing league, a finesse league.
I guess his injury was caused by too much finesse, not by collisions.

Increase collisions, increase chances of winding up quadriplegic. MIKE has more collisions and you have a MIKE regardless of set.

There's been zero evidence other than what comes out of his mouth, that Smith can be a force on the outside in the NFL. As I said before, we shall see.

I don't like it, you like it. Both are fair positions. I think it's gadgetry and we're making the decision based on Smith's self hype and not on anything real or tangible.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
I guess his injury was caused by too much finesse, not by collisions.

Increase collisions, increase chances of winding up quadriplegic. MIKE has more collisions and you have a MIKE regardless of set.

There's been zero evidence other than what comes out of his mouth, that Smith can be a force on the outside in the NFL. As I said before, we shall see.

I don't like it, you like it. Both are fair positions. I think it's gadgetry and we're making the decision based on Smith's self hype and not on anything real or tangible.
How do you know what positions have more "collisions". You are making stuff up to try and prove a point that really isnt all that valid anymore. The fact is on most snaps there arnt going to be 3 LB's on the field in a 4-3 set, so there isnt a true "MLB" position.

The fact of the matter is the game has changed. it's a passing league and a finesse league. No position the guy lines up is going to avoid contact completely. You potentially avoid more "traffic" by putting someone outside, but you don't avoid contact completely.

Also, am pretty sure some of his "injury" stems from spinal stenosis, which had nothing to do with contact/non-contact/position he plays etc etc. That said, the play he was "injured" on had nothing to do with some massive collision, it was a fluke where Jeff Heath ran into him while he was tackling a guy. Whether he plays MLB or OLB, nothing can eliminate something like that can happening.

This "Jaylon Smith self hype" thing is also a ludicrous idea dude.
 

Doomsday

High Plains Drifter
That said, the play he was "injured" on had nothing to do with some massive collision, it was a fluke where Jeff Heath ran into him while he was tackling a guy.
Collision. And he had neck injury issues in college too. It's not going away.
am pretty sure some of his "injury" stems from spinal stenosis, which had nothing to do with contact/non-contact/position he plays etc etc.
The same defect that retired Irvin and the Moose. Only seems to get found after temporary paralysis from, a collision.

If you don't know that the Mike is the focus of every blocking scheme in this league on every play and therefore IS subject to more collisions than any other position on the D, I don't know what else to tell you.
This "Jaylon Smith self hype" thing is also a ludicrous idea dude.
It's actually something that does exist. He's been tweeting his ideas of tearing up the league from OLB for some time now going all the way back to before the start of last season. With zero evidence to support it, even after they tried it, a lot, last season.

It's such a "finesse" league now that suddenly we decide to greatly beef up the middle of the DL with fatter slower guys which is what you do when you want to use the DL to tie up blockers instead of attacking. Protect the LBs and let them make the plays. It's back to the 60s, "read and react" shit. In this scheme, MIKE is taking more hits not less and involved in more collisions.

Spinal stenosis MLB. And you're cool with it. Pardon my skepticism it's only intelligent to think the worst of this walking wounded time bomb LB corps. One with a gimp knee that still needs a brace, and another with a spinal defect that could kill or cripple him. But let's roll the dice!
 

Doomsday

High Plains Drifter
In terms of your comment about the D going down the shitter last yr, not sure what you would say to prove that. in 2019 we allowed 321 pts, in 2018 we allowed 324 pts. in 2019 we ranked 9th in total defense, in 2018 it was 7th. QB rating against us was actually better last yr (lower) than 2018. We had the exact same number of sacks both seasons. Turnovers were miserable both seasons but really no different.
Misleading stats... We continuously let much lesser teams like the NY Jest roll all over us... Couldn't stop slop teams from scoring. The ONE time we played an all-out attack posture for a full game, we held the Saints to 10 measly points. And as I predicted we never used that tactic again all season. That known powerhouse Bears team hung 31 on us, Buffalo 26, GB 34, Vikings 28, Detroit 27... We had a weaker schedule but couldn't stop the weaker teams. It wasn't the overall final stats I was referring to, it was the shit results where it shouldn't have been.
 

Number1

Practice Squad
It's back to the 60s, "read and react" shit. In this scheme, MIKE is taking more hits not less and involved in more collisions.
you don't seem to think stopping the run matters - remember the Boys last playoff game?

the LBs read and react or blitzing - that's their job - just blitzing more, same for the Ss and SCBs
the back 7 has play speed, almost any DC would blitz these guys a lot ... adios Rod
 

Number1

Practice Squad
did you learn the game via wikipedia?
that's the worst description of Landry's 4-3 (which he invented) and later variation "flex" defense I've ever seen

the only DL playing read react was the "flexed" under tackle (3 tech) on run downs
he moved the nose tackle to the O-G gap allowing 4 DL to not be out manned by 5 OL and a TE
that simple innovation made it nearly hard to cut back by design
the rest of the time the whole DL was headed up field, with very few stunts

the 4-3 was designed to stop Paul Brown's trap-n-shoot (forerunner of the WCO) and Sid Gillman's "timing system" which are at the core play-action systems - those 1950s offenses are still the base systems in use today - so is the 4-3
IT IS THE MOST BRILLIANT DEFENSIVE INNOVATION IN NFL HISTORY

w/o Landry there is no telling how long the 5-3 would have been the dominant system in the NFL

it featured awesome DTs who could straight manhandle OGs, like Lilly, Pugh, Cole, and White (none of those DTs were slow), blazing speed at CB like Aderly, Green, and Renfro, and some real killers at S like Green, Harris, Waters, and Bates (notice those are some of the hardest hitting Ss in NFL history), the LBs just took a read step and went to the ball

viscous Ss were the key - the idea was to literally knock the ball loose via high speed collisions
it was brutal in intent and by design, and it was anything but "slow"

a guy who calls himself doomsday should know this

since you don't know ... stick to bad mouthing Garrett
 

dbair1967

Administrator
Collision. And he had neck injury issues in college too. It's not going away.

The same defect that retired Irvin and the Moose. Only seems to get found after temporary paralysis from, a collision.
I have stenosis in my neck and just had surgery to correct part of the problems in May, so i am aware of what it is. There's also varying levels of severity. Things have changed quite a bit since Irvin and Moose retired in large part do to it, and they both had lengthy careers prior to retiring. Some of the stuff they can do today to help correct it probably weren't around in the 90's.

Also, according to multiple times LVE has commented directly, he never had any neck issues prior to this situation last year.

If you don't know that the Mike is the focus of every blocking scheme in this league on every play and therefore IS subject to more collisions than any other position on the D, I don't know what else to tell you.
If there are two LB's on the field, which one is truly a "mike" LB position in the sense you keep describing?

It's actually something that does exist. He's been tweeting his ideas of tearing up the league from OLB for some time now going all the way back to before the start of last season. With zero evidence to support it, even after they tried it, a lot, last season.
It does? Would you care to share some of those, because I have never seen them.

And please describe what you mean by "tried it a lot last season"

It's such a "finesse" league now that suddenly we decide to greatly beef up the middle of the DL with fatter slower guys which is what you do when you want to use the DL to tie up blockers instead of attacking. Protect the LBs and let them make the plays. It's back to the 60s, "read and react" shit. In this scheme, MIKE is taking more hits not less and involved in more collisions.
I don't see it as a commitment to fatter slower guys, I saw it as finally an effort to get BETTER players. McCoy and Poe are bigger than what we have typically had, but they are also both better players. better pass rushers. Much better vs the run.

Spinal stenosis MLB. And you're cool with it. Pardon my skepticism it's only intelligent to think the worst of this walking wounded time bomb LB corps. One with a gimp knee that still needs a brace, and another with a spinal defect that could kill or cripple him. But let's roll the dice!
OK
 
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dbair1967

Administrator
Misleading stats... We continuously let much lesser teams like the NY Jest roll all over us... Couldn't stop slop teams from scoring. The ONE time we played an all-out attack posture for a full game, we held the Saints to 10 measly points. And as I predicted we never used that tactic again all season. That known powerhouse Bears team hung 31 on us, Buffalo 26, GB 34, Vikings 28, Detroit 27... We had a weaker schedule but couldn't stop the weaker teams. It wasn't the overall final stats I was referring to, it was the shit results where it shouldn't have been.
The numbers dont lie genius.

I am not saying one year was better than the other. They were both similar, and the numbers prove that.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
you don't seem to think stopping the run matters - remember the Boys last playoff game?
The last playoff game the issue was the Rams picked up some sort of "key" from watching our film throughout the year which helped them adjust to our front 4 slanting and scheme. There were multiple stories about it afterward.

The prior week we totally stymied the Seahawks run game.
 

Number1

Practice Squad
The last playoff game the issue was the Rams picked up some sort of "key" from watching our film throughout the year
what key?
LOL - we ran a 4-2 all day, an idiot named Rod had more fear of Goff than Wilson

when they didn't fire Rod after that game I felt 2019 would be a mess and JG was all but done
 

dbair1967

Administrator
what key?
LOL - we ran a 4-2 all day, an idiot named Rod had more fear of Goff than Wilson

when they didn't fire Rod after that game I felt 2019 would be a mess and JG was all but done
I don't remember all the details, but the Rams players (especially the OL) were all quoted about it after the game. That they knew exactly what our front was going to do based on some sort of movement or signal they saw on film all season.
 

dbair1967

Administrator

According to this, we blitzed the 7th fewest times of any team in 2019. (23.2% of the time). We ranked 13th in overall QB "hurry" % at 9.6%.

One other trivial note, we ranked 7th in most missed tackles (no surprise)

The prior year (2018) We ranked 8th in fewest blitz attempts (19.8%) and 14th in hurry % (12.6%) and 13th in most missed tackles (112 in 2018, 119 in 2019)
 

Doomsday

High Plains Drifter
that's the worst description of Landry's 4-3 (which he invented) and later variation "flex" defense I've ever seen
It wasn't a description of the flex. There were two points of comparison made with the flex, which are valid. Article is well sourced.

The rest of your post is arguing points nobody else was. Or ever did.
I have stenosis in my neck and just had surgery to correct part of the problems in May, so i am aware of what it is. There's also varying levels of severity. Things have changed quite a bit since Irvin and Moose retired in large part do to it, and they both had lengthy careers prior to retiring. Some of the stuff they can do today to help correct it probably weren't around in the 90's.
Granted, sports medicine and medicine in general have advanced nicely since the 90s. I'm still skeptical though, if LVE's wrecked neck can hold up playing Mike in the NFL. Perfectly reasonable.
I am not saying one year was better than the other. They were both similar, and the numbers prove that.
IF you don't look deeper than year-end stats.
I don't remember all the details, but the Rams players (especially the OL) were all quoted about it after the game. That they knew exactly what our front was going to do based on some sort of movement or signal they saw on film all season.
This is correct and yes it was well reported on after the fact. The Rams players were bragging about it after the game.
 

icup

Super Moderator
glad the team is not dumpster diving this year for nolan carrolls, benson mayowas, and cedric thorntons
 

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