Yo Santorum maybe just muzzle your Christianity until you win?

[superpunk]

Yes I know. But where did that first cell come from again?

Matter which has always existed. Does absolutely no good to imagine that Magic Sky Daddy reached down and crafted the first organism. Because then you've only pushed the question of origin back one step. Now where did Magic Sky Daddy come from? He's always existed? Then why can't we just ignore the whole sky daddy thing and assume that the universe and the matter in it has always existed in some form. It's WAY simpler and more beautiful than the alternative.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Not similar. The same. Add in the fossil record, observed evolution, and the rest of the mountain of evidence it's as concrete as anything can possibly be, and just gets strengthened all the time by new discoveries.

Right.

Just need more time.... lol

 

[superpunk]

Right.

Just need more time.... lol

I guess it's easier to chuckle about it and continue to blindly believe myths than crack open a biology book now and again.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Matter which has always existed. Does absolutely no good to imagine that Magic Sky Daddy reached down and crafted the first organism. Because then you've only pushed the question of origin back one step. Now where did Magic Sky Daddy come from? He's always existed? Then why can't we just ignore the whole sky daddy thing and assume that the universe and the matter in it has always existed in some form. It's WAY simpler and more beautiful than the alternative.

You make my point for me. You and other atheists mock Christians for believing in the "magic sky daddy" etc, yet you have to have similar faith to believe what you believe in since there is no proof.

And no, it's not really simpler. Takes as much to believe that the necessary matter was here from the beginning and then at some point ended up meshing and evolving into complex beings than it does to believe in a Creator who was here since an infinite "beginning".

 

[VA Cowboy]

I guess it's easier to chuckle about it and continue to blindly believe myths than crack open a biology book now and again.

The biology book only explains what's here. Awesome. I took biology in H.S. and college. I got to see how complex God created us.

But I do love your superiority attitude despite having already claimed you just have to believe matter was already here with no beginning. You just put your faith in something different. It's not like you have any concrete proof for what you believe, just cling to the...in time we might find out...just give it more time.... And then hope no one questions you further.

 

[NoDak]

My point is that you were using the defense yourself thus there was no inB4. As for the insults and belittling, you are changing the argument. Your specific point was that atheists use insults and I am pointing out that Christians do as well. Now you want to limit it to only insults which are aimed at belittling beliefs. If that was your original intent then so be it. I don't know if you attacked atheism, I am not going back to check. This was a discussion on Christianity and whenever atheism was brought up it was to belittle those beliefs.

No. My point was that athiests will resort to insults and trying to offend early and often. I never claimed that Christians don't. I've even admitted to being a poor Christian myself. I try to avoid using insults in discussions like these when regarding one's beliefs. But freely admit to being drawn into it after reading it continually directed towards my own.

Look no further than this thread. Perfect example. SP starts with the insults pretty much from the start.

 

[superpunk]

You make my point for me. You and other atheists mock Christians for believing in the "magic sky daddy" etc, yet you have to have similar faith to believe what you believe in since there is no proof.

There is all sorts of proof though. Our universe is constantly expanding, we know that because we can measure it. That means at some point it was alot smaller, infinitely smaller. Eventually it may collapse in on itself again, then explode, and the cycle will repeat. Looking out into the universe is a gigantic history lesson for physicists.

And no, it's not really simpler. Takes as much to believe that the necessary matter was here from the beginning and then at some point ended up meshing and evolving into complex beings than it does to believe in a Creator who was here since an infinite "beginning".

Ok lets say that's true. What problem does putting a "creator" into the process solve? Nothing. It just stops thought. Imagine if we did that for all things. Why do things fall? Because gods drag them down. Why is there thunder? Gods fighting each other. Positing "god" into the equation for any question we have about the natural world solves nothing - it is counterproductive and stops thought.

Even if both ideas had no base, at least the one encourages us to keep looking and testing and thinking. "Goddidit" is perhaps the most awful and useless "explanation" that has ever plagued the human race.

 

[superpunk]

The biology book only explains what's here. Awesome. I took biology in H.S. and college. I got to see how complex God created us.

You must not have retained much.

But I do love your superiority attitude despite having already claimed you just have to believe matter was already here with no beginning. You just put your faith in something different. It's not like you have any concrete proof for what you believe, just cling to the...in time we might find out...just give it more time.... And then hope no one questions you further.

Are you really chastising science and rational thought for being honest, and saying "we don't know that for sure yet, we'll keep looking"?

 

[Cythim]

Yes, SP was using insults and you drag myself and Everlasting down with him even if we aren't doing it. I'm pretty sure I stayed away from insults and offenses until the hyperbole started rolling late in the thread though I may have taken an earlier retaliatory jab. It is human to do that on the internet. My wife moderates a debate forum where Christians are constantly attacking those with opposing views, telling them they deserve to die for their beliefs.

I discuss religion with friends and acquaintances offline all the time and keep it respectful because I am truly interested in hearing their beliefs and why they believe that way. I'll ask them about common doubts but we don't debate and generally have a great conversation. This doesn't happen on the internet because someone gets hurt quickly and starts firing the insults and it comes from both sides.

 

[Cythim]

We should drop this discussion and start piling on the Ancient Astronaut Theorists

 

[Sheik]

Just yesterday I thought a bird shit on my shoulder, turns out it was an expanding space cell.

Lucky for me I had a carrot in my pocket. The wife and I are now expecting.

 

[VA Cowboy]

There is all sorts of proof though. Our universe is constantly expanding, we know that because we can measure it. That means at some point it was alot smaller, infinitely smaller. Eventually it may collapse in on itself again, then explode, and the cycle will repeat. Looking out into the universe is a gigantic history lesson for physicists.

We have proof the universe is expanding which would mean it was smaller at one time. Assumptions are made at this point...

Ok lets say that's true. What problem does putting a "creator" into the process solve? Nothing. It just stops thought. Imagine if we did that for all things. Why do things fall? Because gods drag them down. Why is there thunder? Gods fighting each other. Positing "god" into the equation for any question we have about the natural world solves nothing - it is counterproductive and stops thought.

Even if both ideas had no base, at least the one encourages us to keep looking and testing and thinking. "Goddidit" is perhaps the most awful and useless "explanation" that has ever plagued the human race.

It's useless, unless it's true.

What if God really did do it? And I know of quite a few Christians who are scientists. Believing God is the creator has never stopped testing or thinking.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Are you really chastising science and rational thought for being honest, and saying "we don't know that for sure yet, we'll keep looking"?

Ah, the "are you really...." reply.

And no, I'm not really doing what you stated. But I am chastising individuals who "don't know yet" for mocking Christians and saying they just believe in fairy tales simply because they can't produce a concrete visible evidence for their beliefs. It's called calling out hypocrisy.

 

[Cythim]

Just yesterday I thought a bird shit on my shoulder, turns out it was an expanding space cell.

Lucky for me I had a carrot in my pocket. The wife and I are now expecting.

i loled

 

[VA Cowboy]

Just yesterday I thought a bird shit on my shoulder, turns out it was an expanding space cell.

Lucky for me I had a carrot in my pocket. The wife and I are now expecting.

nice!

 

[NoDak]

Yes, SP was using insults and you drag myself and Everlasting down with him even if we aren't doing it. I'm pretty sure I stayed away from insults and offenses until the hyperbole started rolling late in the thread though I may have taken an earlier retaliatory jab. It is human to do that on the internet. My wife moderates a debate forum where Christians are constantly attacking those with opposing views, telling them they deserve to die for their beliefs.

I discuss religion with friends and acquaintances offline all the time and keep it respectful because I am truly interested in hearing their beliefs and why they believe that way. I'll ask them about common doubts but we don't debate and generally have a great conversation. This doesn't happen on the internet because someone gets hurt quickly and starts firing the insults and it comes from both sides.

First, I never mentioned XXX in any of this. I did try to honestly answer a question he posed to me, tho. And you and I were discussing stuff just fine when I first came into this thread. Neither one insulting the other. It didn't start heading south until you posted about being banned from the board, Jesus didn't want us to speak with non-believers, etc...

We can all agree that SP is a trouble maker tho. He should be shunned.

 

[NoDak]

Just yesterday I thought a bird shit on my shoulder, turns out it was an expanding space cell.

Lucky for me I had a carrot in my pocket. The wife and I are now expecting.

lol

 

[superpunk]

Ah, the "are you really...." reply.

And no, I'm not really doing what you stated. But I am chastising individuals who "don't know yet" for mocking Christians and saying they just believe in fairy tales simply because they can't produce a concrete visible evidence for their beliefs. It's called calling out hypocrisy.

It's not just that Christian beliefs don't have evidence, they can't be tested and offer nothing of value to the world. if Christians want respect for those beliefs then they need to find some way to accomplish them, and play by the rules of science and accepted rational thought.

 

[VA Cowboy]

I can't prove what I believe but I will mock you for your faith [/superpunk]

 

[Cythim]

No, you only implicated 99% of atheists and said the one exception was the other dude from the other forum. I'm just sayin. And if SP weren't here this discussion wouldn't exist. He is a horrible influence on all of us.