Trump Second Term Tracker

yimyammer

yimyammer

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Creeper said:
While I generally agree with you, there is evidence Trump lied about the square footage of his Trump Tower apartment claiming it was significantly larger than it actually is. It is not just a difference of opinion on valuation, it was a verifiable false statement. Is this fraud? Only if the banks were somehow financially harmed by the false statement. The banks did not complain or file a complaint about any of this. The banks testified they did not suffer any financial damage. And as one judge on the appeals panel asked, How does the state claim fraud between two professional organizations with the capability, and obligation, to make their own assessments when neither side claimed any harm? James injected herself into a business transaction where both parties were happy with the transaction. The judge never should have allowed this case to proceed.

That fact is banks do their own appraisals no matter what the borrower claims his properties are worth. And in this case, the banks did testify they did the normal assessments on the Trump properties.
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I'd like to see the evidence presented for the claims about the square footages because I can calculate SF several different ways.

I also do all my own CAD drawings and I am bragging when I say this (but like they say, its not bragging if its true), I will put my construction drawings against anyone in the country. People may beat me on design talent but they cant beat me on the ability to design buildable things from 30+ years of experience plus the knowledge of being a CPA and the experience of GC'ing the buildings we design allows me to run rings around most architects regarding math, finances. cost estimates, etc which ultimately get reflected and implemented into my construction drawings creating high quality control, cost control and superior output.

The reason I mention the above is to emphasize, Im not talking out of my ass when I say I know how to calculate SF multiple ways,. For example, if I take the entire perimeter of a building, that will result in a higher square footage versus another calculation I make that only includes the interior conditioned and livable SF which helps with designing heating and cooling systems as well as conveying what the livable space actual is for the occupant. Both are valid SF figures but serve different purposes

Further, Id wager a good chunk of my net worth Donald Trump did not participate in the creation of the actual construction drawings which would have shown the SF (he likely guided them with what he wanted like ceiling heights, number of baths, bedrooms, etc and may have even said to shoot for a range of final SF between X & Y), 3rd party architects would have had to create the drawings and then deliberately misrepresent the SF at the behest of Trump and risk their licensing and reputation in the process. Trump could have had someone edit the plans received from the architects to manipulate the SF the architects had on their plans. But that would be easily provable by showing the set of drawings submitted to the bank vs the plans the architects claim they submitted to Trump (& they would have all the source files to prove their case) and then compare to identify discrepancies.

Lastly, the bank and appraisers still have an obligation to do their due diligence and are not unfamiliar with reading plans and determining SF so they would have done some quick and dirty calculations on their own for building SF's from which they would have relied upon as a basis for determining a value for the loan which was yet again covered by a much lower loan to appraised value and further mitigated by the value of any building put up for collateral.

So if you have any specific breakdowns, transcripts, testimony etc that backs up the assertion Trump changed the SF, Id love to see how they arrived at that conclusion because its a silly thing to try to do and easy to get busted if the variance is significant.

Lastly, I see errors in plans all the time due to typos, transcription mistakes, etc, how do we know the SF discrepancy wasnt an error?

Did the bank make its loan solely on the SF figure supplied by Trump?

I doubt it...
 
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yimyammer

yimyammer

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PS..if Trump was trying to misrepresent the square footage of a building he was putting up for collateral, the bank would have had their appraiser come up with a SF number and not give much weight or attention to Trumps number. Plus they could look at what the city shows the SF to be for property tax purposes which Trump and/or his consultants would likely never overstate because that would result in higher taxes. Therefore, a good place to start in this example is to see what the city shows as the SF and use that over anything the borrower provides.

The interesting thing about these real estate transactions is there are existing and competing forces working in opposition which make overstating SF counterproductive (not to mention putting oneself at risk of the consequences of lying) because if it benefits you on the loan, it'll screw you when you pay property taxes.

This doesnt mean it never happens but the system creates a built-in dilemma for anyone seeking to profit from misrepresentation of SF

Then again, most criminals are stupid
 
Creeper

Creeper

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yimyammer said:
PS..if Trump was trying to misrepresent the square footage of a building he was putting up for collateral, the bank would have had their appraiser come up with a SF number and not give much weight or attention to Trumps number. Plus they could look at what the city shows the SF to be for property tax purposes which Trump and/or his consultants would likely never overstate because that would result in higher taxes. Therefore, a good place to start in this example is to see what the city shows as the SF and use that over anything the borrower provides.

The interesting thing about these real estate transactions is there are existing and competing forces working in opposition which make overstating SF counterproductive (not to mention putting oneself at risk of the consequences of lying) because if it benefits you on the loan, it'll screw you when you pay property taxes.

This doesnt mean it never happens but the system creates a built-in dilemma for anyone seeking to profit from misrepresentation of SF

Then again, most criminals are stupid
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As the one judge on the appeals panel states, the banks are obligated by their own policies to do their own appraisals. The banks claimed they did in fact do appraisals. They also stated, they didn't care about Trump own estimates as they would have lent him the money anyway given that he is an excellent customer who repaid all his loans on time. I worked in commercial lending for a major NY bank a long time ago and I know for a fact, banks will do their own valuations for whatever collateral is presented with a loan application. Banks are not in the happen of getting burned on property valuations. If they allowed everyone to do their own valuations they would be out of the loan business in short order. I also know that banks have favored customers for whom they may make exceptions to regular procedures, but those would be approved at a high level and only for customers with excellent credit history. I cannot believe that a bank like Deutsche Bank would not follow it's policies to the letter because they are large enough to be under the scrutiny of multiple federal regulators.
 
yimyammer

yimyammer

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Creeper said:
As the one judge on the appeals panel states, the banks are obligated by their own policies to do their own appraisals. The banks claimed they did in fact do appraisals. They also stated, they didn't care about Trump own estimates as they would have lent him the money anyway given that he is an excellent customer who repaid all his loans on time. I worked in commercial lending for a major NY bank a long time ago and I know for a fact, banks will do their own valuations for whatever collateral is presented with a loan application. Banks are not in the happen of getting burned on property valuations. If they allowed everyone to do their own valuations they would be out of the loan business in short order. I also know that banks have favored customers for whom they may make exceptions to regular procedures, but those would be approved at a high level and only for customers with excellent credit history. I cannot believe that a bank like Deutsche Bank would not follow it's policies to the letter because they are large enough to be under the scrutiny of multiple federal regulators.
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Laissez-faire
 
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