Creeper

Practice Squad
Respectfully disagree Dooms. It'll never be overturned. The reality is that there was enough evidence to convict Chauvin. I don't believe the man woke up that morning to hurt anyone and I don't think his intent was to kill Floyd but the way he tactically handled the situation when Floyd was in handcuffs and laying on the ground is just too high a bar to overcome.

Did Floyd contribute to his own death? You bet but that's something that will be overlooked at sentencing. And that's where the real travesty of justice will take place. Chauvin is going to be the sacraficial lamb; he'll do more time in prison than convicted and premeditated killers. Repeat offenders get a slap on the wrist but this guy is going to pay a high price.

The ultimate victim is the CJ system. It's been irreparably damaged by both George Floyd and Derek Chauvin. Unfortunately, crime will continue to go up and all of this will negatively affect the dolts who are burning their cities and protesting. And our kids will be discussing the same issues about poverty, inner-city violence, black on black crime, crime statistics, lack of parenting, single parents, and so on when they are our age. Nothing will change until these communities change and stop blaming everyone else for their plight while waiting for a handout.

According to the definition of the charges, I am not convinced Chauvin was guilty of any of the charges.

Second degree murder does not require intent, but it is causing the death of a person while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense. In this case the prosecutors claim the felony offense was assault in the 3rd degree. The problem for me is I don't think Chauvin was committing an assault by applying a police trained tactic to subdue a man resisting arrest. Chauvin did what he was taught to do. Second degree murder requires that Chauvin not only caused the death of Floyd but also intentionally applied unlawful force and it resulted in bodily harm. I don't think Chauvin intended to apply excessive force.

3rd degree murder is causing the death of another person by committing an "eminently dangerous" act to another with some degree of depravity, without regard for human life, but without intent to kill. Again, I don't think Chauvin thought he was committing a dangerous act without regard for human life. The video does not show Chauvin acting in a manner that would seem "depraved".

2nd degree manslaughter required jurors to believe that Chauvin caused Floyd's death through negligence and that he consciously took the change of causing severe injury or death. Again, in this case, if other factors contributed to Floyd's death, like blocking of the arteries, or a drug overdose, both of which were present in this case, there is no way Chauvin could have known that at the time. If you believe Floyd would have survived this incident had he not overdosed on drugs or if his arteries had not been 90% blocked, then there is reasonable doubt on this charge too.

I can see a reasonable person convicting Chauvin of 2nd degree manslaughter, but I don't think either murder charge is appropriate. Chauvin had no chance of a fair trial from the beginning. He is the sacrificial lamb to appease the mob.

The problem is, appeasement never works, it only emboldens the mob to go further.
 

Dodger12

Super Moderator
According to the definition of the charges, I am not convinced Chauvin was guilty of any of the charges.

Second degree murder does not require intent, but it is causing the death of a person while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense. In this case the prosecutors claim the felony offense was assault in the 3rd degree. The problem for me is I don't think Chauvin was committing an assault by applying a police trained tactic to subdue a man resisting arrest. Chauvin did what he was taught to do. Second degree murder requires that Chauvin not only caused the death of Floyd but also intentionally applied unlawful force and it resulted in bodily harm. I don't think Chauvin intended to apply excessive force.

3rd degree murder is causing the death of another person by committing an "eminently dangerous" act to another with some degree of depravity, without regard for human life, but without intent to kill. Again, I don't think Chauvin thought he was committing a dangerous act without regard for human life. The video does not show Chauvin acting in a manner that would seem "depraved".

2nd degree manslaughter required jurors to believe that Chauvin caused Floyd's death through negligence and that he consciously took the change of causing severe injury or death. Again, in this case, if other factors contributed to Floyd's death, like blocking of the arteries, or a drug overdose, both of which were present in this case, there is no way Chauvin could have known that at the time. If you believe Floyd would have survived this incident had he not overdosed on drugs or if his arteries had not been 90% blocked, then there is reasonable doubt on this charge too.

I can see a reasonable person convicting Chauvin of 2nd degree manslaughter, but I don't think either murder charge is appropriate. Chauvin had no chance of a fair trial from the beginning. He is the sacrificial lamb to appease the mob.

The problem is, appeasement never works, it only emboldens the mob to go further.

Creeper, under normal circumstances, I'd break down the charges and try to come to an honest and rational conclusion, just like you did. But I won't because I don't think the truth matters in the current situation. Chauvin was going to pay a heavy price to appease a mob that can't be appeased.

Having said that, I keep wondering what the hell Chauvin was thinking. That was not a tactically sound maneuver and to have someone in that position for 9 minutes is just insane. Yes, I know Floyd was non-compliant. But at the moment you have a defendant in cuffs, that type of "control" is just not necessary for that length of time. We've had to use leg chains in my day and a defendant was getting in the transport vehicle one way or another (completely shackled). Chauvin fucked up and I have no idea what was going through his mind. Chauvin set law enforcement back years and it may never recover. I don't believe it was intentional and I certainly don't believe he meant to kill anyone but the end result is the same and it will have a chilling effect on law enforcement in the future when an officer believes he can be held criminally liable during a struggle to subdue a non-compliant suspect.
 

cml750

Facepalm
Interesting......

What we have there are grossly misinformed people. They are purposely misinformed by the left and their propaganda arm aka the mainstream media. They are determined to divide this country to take it down so they can "build back better", start the "Great Reset", or whatever bullshit name they call their socialist remake of this once great nation. They are driving us to civil war to weaken the strongest country so they can put us under a globalist socialist one world government that has complete control of everything we do and/or say.
 

Creeper

Practice Squad
Creeper, under normal circumstances, I'd break down the charges and try to come to an honest and rational conclusion, just like you did. But I won't because I don't think the truth matters in the current situation. Chauvin was going to pay a heavy price to appease a mob that can't be appeased.

Having said that, I keep wondering what the hell Chauvin was thinking. That was not a tactically sound maneuver and to have someone in that position for 9 minutes is just insane. Yes, I know Floyd was non-compliant. But at the moment you have a defendant in cuffs, that type of "control" is just not necessary for that length of time. We've had to use leg chains in my day and a defendant was getting in the transport vehicle one way or another (completely shackled). Chauvin fucked up and I have no idea what was going through his mind. Chauvin set law enforcement back years and it may never recover. I don't believe it was intentional and I certainly don't believe he meant to kill anyone but the end result is the same and it will have a chilling effect on law enforcement in the future when an officer believes he can be held criminally liable during a struggle to subdue a non-compliant suspect.

I understand completely. There is no doubt Chauvin was sacrificed to spare the country of a summer of terror again.

As for what Chauvin was thinking, only he can answer that. But when I watched the full video my impression was he was not thinking about Floyd in any way. He was looking around as if he was more concerned with what everyone else, and by that I mean the mob that had developed, was doing. It did not appear to me Chauvin applied any exceptional force to Floyd. He just knelt on his upper back while looking around like a deer in the headlights. I know it was 9 minutes, but my question was why he had to kneel on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes? Why wasn't he loaded into the police car once he was subdued? I think Chauvin stayed on top of Floyd because as long as he was not being put in the car he had to stay on top of him to ensure he did not resist arrest again. I am not absolving Chauvin. His actions were inappropriate. But I don't think he or his partners ever thought that Floyd's life was in danger from their actions. There was clearly no intent.

I have no doubt there are a lot of cops who do not belong on the police force. Many will never face a situation where their incompetence will result in the death of another human being. Some, like Chauvin, and the lady cop who shot Duante Wright, were unfortunate enough to experience a situation where they were simply not up to the job. But we have to remember, cops are humans and they are subject to human emotions, fears, and mistakes that all humans make. There is never going to be a perfect system. Being a cop is a tough job.

The concern I have is if we have 0 tolerance with cops, we will have more not fewer people dying on the streets. Where we find cops with malicious intent, by all means arrest and prosecute.
 

Kevinicus

Spectator
I understand completely. There is no doubt Chauvin was sacrificed to spare the country of a summer of terror again.

As for what Chauvin was thinking, only he can answer that. But when I watched the full video my impression was he was not thinking about Floyd in any way. He was looking around as if he was more concerned with what everyone else, and by that I mean the mob that had developed, was doing. It did not appear to me Chauvin applied any exceptional force to Floyd. He just knelt on his upper back while looking around like a deer in the headlights. I know it was 9 minutes, but my question was why he had to kneel on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes? Why wasn't he loaded into the police car once he was subdued? I think Chauvin stayed on top of Floyd because as long as he was not being put in the car he had to stay on top of him to ensure he did not resist arrest again. I am not absolving Chauvin. His actions were inappropriate. But I don't think he or his partners ever thought that Floyd's life was in danger from their actions. There was clearly no intent.

I have no doubt there are a lot of cops who do not belong on the police force. Many will never face a situation where their incompetence will result in the death of another human being. Some, like Chauvin, and the lady cop who shot Duante Wright, were unfortunate enough to experience a situation where they were simply not up to the job. But we have to remember, cops are humans and they are subject to human emotions, fears, and mistakes that all humans make. There is never going to be a perfect system. Being a cop is a tough job.

The concern I have is if we have 0 tolerance with cops, we will have more not fewer people dying on the streets. Where we find cops with malicious intent, by all means arrest and prosecute.
Floyd was on the ground by his own request, as we know. His resistance and complaining of not being able to breath, yada yada yada got him there. I'm sure people would be up in arms if they had forced him in there and then he later died from all the drugs. They'd be going, "He was saying he couldn't breath and was claustrophic, why didn't you give him some space? How could you force him into a small place like that when he was clearly having issues?" They'd blame them regardless because he would die in police custody.

Paramedics were called pretty early on, so it makes sense to keep him there on the street, and to keep some restraint in case he were to act up again.
 

Dodger12

Super Moderator
I understand completely. There is no doubt Chauvin was sacrificed to spare the country of a summer of terror again.

As for what Chauvin was thinking, only he can answer that. But when I watched the full video my impression was he was not thinking about Floyd in any way. He was looking around as if he was more concerned with what everyone else, and by that I mean the mob that had developed, was doing. It did not appear to me Chauvin applied any exceptional force to Floyd. He just knelt on his upper back while looking around like a deer in the headlights. I know it was 9 minutes, but my question was why he had to kneel on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes? Why wasn't he loaded into the police car once he was subdued? I think Chauvin stayed on top of Floyd because as long as he was not being put in the car he had to stay on top of him to ensure he did not resist arrest again. I am not absolving Chauvin. His actions were inappropriate. But I don't think he or his partners ever thought that Floyd's life was in danger from their actions. There was clearly no intent.

I have no doubt there are a lot of cops who do not belong on the police force. Many will never face a situation where their incompetence will result in the death of another human being. Some, like Chauvin, and the lady cop who shot Duante Wright, were unfortunate enough to experience a situation where they were simply not up to the job. But we have to remember, cops are humans and they are subject to human emotions, fears, and mistakes that all humans make. There is never going to be a perfect system. Being a cop is a tough job.

The concern I have is if we have 0 tolerance with cops, we will have more not fewer people dying on the streets. Where we find cops with malicious intent, by all means arrest and prosecute.

Agree 100% Creeper. Policing will never be perfect. The problem is that people take these rare and tragic instances and claim a racial bias or systemic racism which just isn't true. And since we'll continue to see these confrontations that people can debate over Twitter, this issue isn't going to go away....ever. I'd bet there are more people killed by doctors than police officers but no one is claiming any sort of bias or keeping score on the numbers, race or ethnicity of the victims.

Things will only get worse and people's fears are driven by the dishonest media. Even NBC edited the recent shooting of the 16 year old girl with a knife who was going to stab another black woman by not showing the knife in her hand and left the interpretation up to the illiterate shill to feed into the narrative.
 

Scot

Pro Bowler
Absolutely perfect!

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