Number1

Practice Squad
ADMIN NOTE:

The first several posts of this thread were spun off from the POTUS election thread because exploration and discussion of the "deep state" merits its own topic. Please keep your posts factual and deal honestly.
our electoral system is our most critical infrastructure.
CISA is more than a room full of geeks chasing hackers.

They sounded stat happy when a mic was stuck in their face after all the concern about election security the last 4 years they just bragged on what they see as a job well done.

but you're correct most fed workers are not trumpers - just everyday patriots doing their job under the law
the deep state is not the swamp - they are what's in between us and the swamp the far left or far right would create
 

Dodger12

Super Moderator
but you're correct most fed workers are not trumpers - just everyday patriots doing their job under the law
the deep state is not the swamp - they are what's in between us and the swamp the far left or far right would create

I'll quote the whole sentence because you have no idea what you're talking about. No clue....
 

Doomsday

High Plains Drifter
I'll quote the whole sentence because you have no idea what you're talking about. No clue....
Most reasonable statement I've seen him make. Definition of "the deep state" depends on the worldview of the person. At least now it's acknowledged as something that truly exists and no longer dismissed as a "loony conspiracy theory" so, that's progress!
 

Dodger12

Super Moderator
Most reasonable statement I've seen him make. Definition of "the deep state" depends on the worldview of the person. At least now it's acknowledged as something that truly exists and no longer dismissed as a "loony conspiracy theory" so, that's progress!

Just because he made reference to the deep state doesn't make his statement any more correct. It's very obvious what we're seeing now that there are some actors behind the scene at work. These folks will also be hiding behind the Corpse making decisions for the country and formulating his tweets and policy statements.
 

Doomsday

High Plains Drifter
Just because he made reference to the deep state doesn't make his statement any more correct. It's very obvious what we're seeing now that there are some actors behind the scene at work. These folks will also be hiding behind the Corpse making decisions for the country and formulating his tweets and policy statements.
My first sentence in that post you quoted is the operative one. I didn't say anything about anything being correct.

Sometimes my sense of irony is too subtle.
 

Number1

Practice Squad
Most reasonable statement I've seen him make. Definition of "the deep state" depends on the worldview of the person. At least now it's acknowledged as something that truly exists and no longer dismissed as a "loony conspiracy theory" so, that's progress!

to me the deep state are all the thousands of Americans staffing the federal government - they are the glue

the notion they hang around plotting to undermine the US is rather silly - that's the "loony conspiracy theory"

people like Bolton, Hill, Ray, Krebs ... by nature just don't like reckless people like Trump and won't cosign lies
that's a good thing
 

Doomsday

High Plains Drifter
the notion they hang around plotting to undermine the US
That's actually not the meter, I've never seen or heard that accusation. It comes across as Alinsky-inspired, lie about the opponent's position.

What I DO know is Trump's idea of it which he gets from being an Alex Jones acolyte - that the "deep state" within the government has orchestrated attacks and events throughout history. This includes the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building, the massacre at Sandy Hook (he claims that many of the parents were actors), the Boston Marathon attack, and on and on, including believing that the 9/11 attack was "executed by the United States government." Roger Stone is also a major influence. Stone has written several books which center on conspiracy theories, and blames Lyndon Johnson for the death of President Kennedy, and alleges that Ted Cruz's father was involved in that assassination.

Trump actually believes this nonsense, and also believes this same "deep state" has been working from Day One to undermine HIM. Not the US itself. That's his view of it.

For myself I've been reading Miles Taylor's book, "A Warning" and if you don't know who he is, he came out last month identifying himself as the "anonymous" writer of the op-ed piece in the NYT "Part of the Resistance" which Trump hailed as proof of his "deep state" worldview. When actually it appears Taylor was sincere in his writings both anonymously and for his book which I think everyone should read and give a fair shake.

There is NO doubt a "deep state" exists and I believe it actually started with the Civil Service act of 1871, created to limit the power of the President - Prior to 1871, the president could select federal employees, all of whom served at the pleasure of the president. This is no longer the case. I believe this entrenched bureaucracy continues beneath the federal government, controlling and frequently reshaping policies. It's the buffer we need in the event we elect a crazy man to our highest office. It's something we needed and still have, and it's not necessarily detrimental. Call it the swamp, the deep state or whatever you want. It's a CHECK on the Executive.

It is nearly autonomous and is somewhat insulated from executive action and draws power from the national security and intelligence communities, a realm where secrecy is a source of power. This power was greatly increased for the U.S. intelligence community since the September 11 attacks and has essentially built a fourth branch of the U.S. government.

When people of good conscience act, it's not always malevolent. It's fair to say most of them act for the good of their country. It's also way fair to say that there are partisans and hacks of all stripes, inside of it who may act accordingly, as hacks. It's the nature of any bureaucratic beast no matter who the temporary resident of the White House is.
 

Number1

Practice Squad
It is nearly autonomous and is somewhat insulated from executive action and draws power from the national security and intelligence communities, a realm where secrecy is a source of power. This power was greatly increased for the U.S. intelligence community since the September 11 attacks and has essentially built a fourth branch of the U.S. government.

When people of good conscience act, it's not always malevolent. It's fair to say most of them act for the good of their country. It's also way fair to say that there are partisans and hacks of all stripes, inside of it who may act accordingly, as hacks. It's the nature of any bureaucratic beast no matter who the temporary resident of the White House is.
that's not an on going conspiracy or even a cohesive group. just the situation evolving

I am hawkish as it gets and one of independents that voted Trump out because he's morally unit / twisted
check the exit polls, I'm exactly the type of voter that most impacted presidential elections

the deep state has to carry on - as Washington put it "we must trust in the good and the wise"
 
Last edited:

This Bud's 4U

Drew Pearson cheated!
to me the deep state are all the thousands of Americans staffing the federal government - they are the glue

the notion they hang around plotting to undermine the US is rather silly - that's the "loony conspiracy theory"

people like Bolton, Hill, Ray, Krebs ... by nature just don't like reckless people like Trump and won't cosign lies
that's a good thing
Strawman argument...They don't have to hang around and plot anything.....They're hired because they will do the bidding of The State without a second thought.

To use an extreme example, Eichmann and Mengele didn't need orders...They were put in place because they were sadists.
 

Number1

Practice Squad
Our deep state is designed to prevent nut cases in power. at least not for long. The US is full of incredibly freedom loving people and staunch individualists.

Eichmann and Mengele your right, and sickos like them like brutality and all they need is a dog whistle. Keep in mind Eichmann and Mengele are the most extreme of cases and grew up in an empirical system, expecting to lead by an autocrat, such is 90+% of the history of the Eurasian continent .

Autocracy happens when the far left / far right / any charismatic nut case is left unchecked (like George III / Napoleon / Moa / Kim / Chavez ... bullies) but we have lots of checks and balances by design, because most of the population of the US arrived here (by choice or not) due to brutality of autocrats in one stripe or another.

As a nation we hold certain "self evident" truths. And that is our saving grace.

Horrible stuff like slavery, the trail of tears, Jim Crow ... the Wilson, Hoover, and Trump admins ... we correct as needed by votes and or arms. We are too well armed and have too much heart to allow such. The honorable men and women in our deep state are a bulwark against such. So is every decent American.
 

This Bud's 4U

Drew Pearson cheated!
Our deep state is designed to prevent nut cases in power.

I can't take anyone seriously who starts out with that sentence, after witnessing the bureaucrats and police state spooks totally out of control over the course of the last dozen or so years.
 
Top Bottom
We've logged Hit Counter by Digits Visitors since 2018.
DISCLAIMER:
The company requires me to use a disclaimer:
The opinions expressed are solely those of authors on this forum and do not represent the views of the Company (Jackson's Food Stores)
Thank you.