Michael Huff, two others visiting today

[bkeavs]

I remember when the Giants weren't eliminated by week 17 last year. Those are hardly the only teams doing the exact same thing we are.

You're better than is Sp. I don't care what the racists on this board say about you

 

[Midswat]

Also, can we stop with the you don't agree with whatever I'm saying so you're a troll crap.

First, go fuck your mother.

Second, if you're going to honestly tell me what we don't have a cap problem this year, then you're trolling.

Thirdly, go fuck your mother again. She has an unbelievable sexual appetite.

 

[superpunk]

Could we have signed Andy levitre, Winston, Wes welker. Some of the top players available that could instantly improve our team most notably our offensive line

I think it's more likely we had no interest in these players than we weren't able to get them.

Everyone cried about the same shit last year and we went out and signed who we wanted for big money. It can be done. Is it the best way? Maybe not. Should we be winning more for all the manipulation we do? Sure. But please lets stop acting like our cap situation prevents us from doing anything we want to do.

 

[cmd34(work)]

Second, if you're going to honestly tell me what we don't have a cap problem this year, then you're trolling

Whoever says "we don't have a cap problem this year" is wrong.

Whoever is saying we shouldn't restructure to free up space is just not realistic. It's what we have to do to get by.

Also, you keep mentioning we are pushing guaranteed money into future years. We aren't. We are paying more guaranteed money right now (signing or restructure bonuses), one of the few luxuries of having Jerry as an owner. We are pushing a bigger cap hit of fictional money down the road which does effect us BUT it's mostly a bill that will never come because the players will never see the last year or last 2 years of their deal. In those years, they'll have something like a $20 million cap hit when they are 36 years old. They will never see that. It's a numbers game.

 

[GloryDaysRBack]

Huff already gone.

 

[cmd34(work)]

Nate Livings left without a deal last year as well. He went to the Rams who told him "The Cowboys want to pay you WHAT???!!" and then called us back and signed immediately.

This story accomplishes two things.
1) It shows how Mike Huff leaving without a deal does not necessarily mean we won't sign him.

and

2) It shows that Jerry Jones is a jackass and overpaid for a crappy Nate Livings.

 

[dbair1967]

You're right. I missed the memo that announced the Franchise Tag is unavailable next year.

Hey genius, did you investigate what the cap charge for him would be next to franchise him?

If so, you might have refrained from making such an ass of yourself over this.

Why are we so tight against the cap this year?

Alot of good players here.

Oh, that's right.... because years upon years of mismanaging the cap.

So the other 10-12 teams or so that are snug against the cap, is it because of years of mismanaging the cap?

 

[dbair1967]

Could we have signed Andy levitre, Winston, Wes welker. No. We are talking about huff and Moore

To argue that we have can do what we want and sign who we want, means you are currently unemployed and have a lot of free time

Moore is a good player and was one of the top rated Guards in the league again last year. He is definitely an upgrade over the two guys we had start at G last year. Huff is an average to above average player but again, he would be an upgrade at a position we need help at.

I still wonder why KC gave Winston the boot after just a year though. Andy Reid isnt exactly stupid.

As for Welker, I honestly dont see him being a player we needed.

 

[Midswat]

Whoever says "we don't have a cap problem this year" is wrong.

Well derrr.

Whoever is saying we shouldn't restructure to free up space is just not realistic. It's what we have to do to get by.

And I don't like it. It's what we have to do too often. It's bad business. One of the many things this front office doesn't do well. I'm not going to applaud it just because it's out of our control.

Also, you keep mentioning we are pushing guaranteed money into future years. We aren't. We are paying more guaranteed money right now (signing or restructure bonuses), one of the few luxuries of having Jerry as an owner. We are pushing a bigger cap hit of fictional money down the road which does effect us BUT it's mostly a bill that will never come because the players will never see the last year or last 2 years of their deal. In those years, they'll have something like a $20 million cap hit when they are 36 years old. They will never see that. It's a numbers game.

Educate me if I'm wrong (I'm not, btw)....

This is what we're doing.... we're taking Dick McNuttsandballs 7 mil salary this year, and we're converting say, 5 million into a SB over the remaining three years of his deal. So his cap # is, instead of 7 mil, is now 2 + prorated portion of new SB (1.66 mil) in this example... thus saving 3.4 mil (approx) against this years cap. But we're adding 1.6mil in salary to 2014/2015 years. Or, if McNuttsandballs is cut after this year, then we have 3+ mil dead money (plus whatever other guaranteed money was already there.

I don't get how you can say we'll never pay the bill. When it's guaranteed money, we pay it regardless. Hence, guaranteed.

 

[dbair1967]

Midtard keeps on trolling!

 

[Midswat]

Hey genius, did you investigate what the cap charge for him would be next to franchise him?

I imagine it'd be around 18 mil.

Alot of good players here.

No. About 10 good players and 43 JAGs.

So the other 10-12 teams or so that are snug against the cap, is it because of years of mismanaging the cap?

If they're snug against the cap because they continue to give shitty players guaranteed money, or give guys like Leonard Davis/Roy Williams/Terrance Newmans/Marion Barbers terrible contracts and keep paying those players when they're not even on the team anymore then yes.... they're also mismanaging the cap.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

Dick McNuttsandballs 7 mil salary this year

Hey, I'm friends with him on Facebook. Never knew he was rich, or played for the Cowboys.

 

[cmd34(work)]

Well derrr

It was you who said whoever said that is "trolling". So I believe that derr comment applies to your comment.

And I don't like it. It's what we have to do too often. It's bad business. One of the many things this front office doesn't do well. I'm not going to applaud it just because it's out of our control.

We gambled on Miles Austin in the uncapped year and got hosed. The NFL has to approve all contracts so for them to approve it and then come back a year later and punish us for it is just ridiculous. So a lot of decisions that were made the last few years probably included an extra $10 million that the league has now taken away from us.

Educate me if I'm wrong (I'm not, btw)....

This is what we're doing.... we're taking Dick McNuttsandballs 7 mil salary this year, and we're converting say, 5 million into a SB over the remaining three years of his deal. So his cap # is, instead of 7 mil, is now 2 + prorated portion of new SB (1.66 mil) in this example... thus saving 3.4 mil (approx) against this years cap. But we're adding 1.6mil in salary to 2014/2015 years. Or, if McNuttsandballs is cut after this year, then we have 3+ mil dead money (plus whatever other guaranteed money was already there.

I don't get how you can say we'll never pay the bill. When it's guaranteed money, we pay it regardless. Hence, guaranteed

I've explained this before but the only thing that gets pushed is a larger pro-rated bonus which is a number that only exists for cap hit purposes, it's no longer real. the Money was paid up front. What people have to realize is that we are not going to restructure anyone that we realistically think will be cut a year later.
Using your example, Dick M had a $7 million base this year. You aren’t including whatever pro-rated bonus hit he had from his past signing bonus. Let’s say it’s $1M so that he has a 2013 cap hit of $8M. Now, let’s say Dick is a player we see playing for us as least another 2 years, 2013 and 2014.

Without restructuring him we will pay out $ 7 million in actual money over 17 weeks and then pay him a much bigger salary in 2014. Let’s say $8M so including that $1M pro-rated bonus, a $9 M cap hit.

So, since we have no cap room AND intend for him to play for the Dallas Cowboys for at least 2 years, we ask him to restructure. So we give him the $5M restructure bonus. This brings his 2013 cap hit down from $8M all the way to $4,666,667 ( $2 million base + $1M original pro-rated bonus + $1,666,667 new restructuring bonus). The $5M restructuring bonus is gone, it’s paid. Dick M went from getting $7 million over 17 weeks to $5M cash up front and $2M over 17 weeks. Either way Dick M costs the Dallas Cowboys $7M in actual cash this year. They key, is it freed up $3,333,333 in immediate cap room which means we can sign an additional free agent to improve the roster. So now we have Dick M. and our new free agent. Before we only had Dick M.

Now, in 2014 Dick M will have a cap hit of $ 10,666,667 instead of the $9M he would have had if we did not restructure. So yes, it does give us a bigger CAP number but in actual money paid out it will still be $8M spread out over 17 weeks just like it was in 2013. Same exact money as before the restructure, just a slightly larger cap hit.

In 2015, Dick M, now age 32, has a cap hit of $11,666,667. The team has decided he is not playing up to the level of his contract and cuts him. The cap hit is $2,666,667 and the moves free up $9M in cap room. Actual money paid out to Dick M in 2015 is ZERO DOLLARS. That final bill never comes. The $2,666,667 cap hit is not actual money paid out, it’s only purpose is cap space. He already got that money from his original signing bonus and then restructure bonus in 2013.

 

[Theebs]

In 2015, Dick M, now age 35

Dick M. is getting old.

Time to draft a new Dick M.

 

[cmd34(work)]

Dick M. is getting old.

Time to draft a new Dick M.

Good point. We probably wouldn't restructure a player who is already 33. I changed him to 30 at the time of the extension and then age 32 for 2015.

 

[Midswat]

We gambled on Miles Austin in the uncapped year and got hosed. The NFL has to approve all contracts so for them to approve it and then come back a year later and punish us for it is just ridiculous. So a lot of decisions that were made the last few years probably included an axtra $10 million that the league has now taken away from us.

While I agree we got hosed on the MA contract, lets remember we were so ass backwards with our cap for years and planned on using that 2010 uncapped year to right wrongs. Had that year not been uncapped, we would've been hosed even worse.

Not saying it's right. Just saying we have a history of mismanaging our cap and hoped to use a get out of jail free card.

I've explained this before but the only thing that gets pushed is a larger pro-rated bonus which is a number that only exists for cap hit purposes, it's no longer real. the Money was paid up front.

I don't care when it was paid. All I care about is how it affects our cap. And it affects our cap by giving us less money to spend in future years.

What people have to realize is that we are not going to restructure anyone that we realistically think will be cut a year later.

Well, we have a history of giving bad contracts out. And we have a history of players not seing the end of their deals giving us dead cap space. And guaranteed money to players affects roster decisiosn, which it shouldn't.

it’s only purpose is cap space. He already got that money from his original signing bonus and then restructure bonus in 2013.

Which wouldn't have otherwise been there if we didn't have to guarantee it to squeeze under the cap three years ago. Dead money.

 

[dbair1967]

I imagine it'd be around 18 mil.

You imagined wrong

No. About 10 good players and 43 JAGs.

Uh huh.

If they're snug against the cap because they continue to give shitty players guaranteed money, or give guys like Leonard Davis/Roy Williams/Terrance Newmans/Marion Barbers terrible contracts and keep paying those players when they're not even on the team anymore then yes.... they're also mismanaging the cap.

Roy Williams and and MBIII were both very poor deals to hand out, no question about that.

They needed to sign Leonard Davis and he was well worth what he got paid for a couple seasons or so. T New was a core player on defense and was a must keep.

But not every contract is a bad contract.

The more important issue is this further amplifies why you cant have situations like the 2009 draft happen. The last few drafts have been better, but you have to keep it up so that your roster has plenty of younger, cheaper starters/role players in addition to the core guys who will be expensive but are guys you cant afford to lose.

 

[cmd34(work)]

Which wouldn't have otherwise been there if we didn't have to guarantee it to squeeze under the cap three years ago. Dead money.

You say this as if we had a choice. We were over the cap this year. Our team consists of veterans who maybe have a few years left. We HAD to restructure to one, get under the cap..Two, be able to sign our draft picks and Three, have any chance of signing free agents and upgrading our talent.

With no restructuring, we would have to cut players which brings down the overall level of our talent on the roster.

With restructuring, we can sign a few players, improve the roster, and give Romo, Witten, Ware, etc a better chance at a playoff run.

If we're done, I'm with you. Cut the overpaid veterans, take the hit for a year or two, and rebuild. I just don't think we're at that point yet.

 

[Midswat]

You say this as if we had a choice. We were over the cap this year. Our team consists of veterans who maybe have a few years left. We HAD to restructure to one, get under the cap..Two, be able to sign our draft picks and Three, have any chance of signing free agents and upgrading our talent.

With no restructuring, we would have to cut players which brings down the overall level of our talent on the roster.

With restructuring, we can sign a few players, improve the roster, and give Romo, Witten, Ware, etc a better chance at a playoff run.

If we're done, I'm with you. Cut the overpaid veterans, take the hit for a year or two, and rebuild. I just don't think we're at that point yet.

Thought I covered this in post 43.



Also, dbair... please enlighten me to what the cap figure will be to franchise a QB next year.

It was 14.62 this year. But I'm sure my 18mil figure was waaaaay off.... right?

 

[dbair1967]

Thought I covered this in post 43.



Also, dbair... please enlighten me to what the cap figure will be to franchise a QB next year.

It was 14.62 this year. But I'm sure my 18mil figure was waaaaay off.... right?

It was in one of the numerous reports that came out around the time Flacco signed his new deal. The number they through out there for us to use the exclusive franchise tag was something north of 20 mils.