BTB: Can The Cowboys Live With Nate Livings As The Left Guard?

[LAZARUS_LOGAN]

so again, you just happened to "miss" the game against Arizona, when he supposedly handled Calais Campbell with ease?

And I read all the reviews on Livings by people who looked at him, he wasnt horrible every week.

Here's the thing. As bad as people want to make Livings out to be, how come the Bengals had to use a 1st round draft pick to replace Livings? Evidently, they didn't have anyone on thier roster that could adequately replace him.

 

[LAZARUS_LOGAN]

You mention the Arizona game like it's some silver bullet that would erase his entire argument.

Lets say he did miss it. Then what, he missed the 1 good game out of 16? Oh yeah, that'll really change people's perspective.

Instead of no good games, he had 1.......haha, get the fuck outta here.

How many games of Livings with the Bengals have you seen him play to come to a determination on whether he was good or bad? You seem to have already dismissed him out of hand.

 

[ZeroClub]

I don't know what to think of these guys either. They aren't great, but you shouldn't need great guards. You just need serviceable guys who will be solid, not get killed, not blow assignments, and can work with the guy next to them.

Or maybe these guys can't even do that. Who knows.

I do have a feeling they've already got scapegoat written all over them for anything that goes wrong with our offense.

Scapegoats? In what sense?

If the interior OL fails again this year, a whole bunch of the blame, probably all of the blame, falls on Garrett and Jones for failing to acquire sufficient G, C, G talent despite a very obvious need demonstrated during the prior year.

There is a group of fans who resist holding Garrett accountable for anything ..., but they can't be taken seriously.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

I don't mean just Garrett. IMO the guards got way too much blame for last year, for everything from Romo sacks to inability to run. Holland actually was a pretty decent guard and Kosier was a solid player for years, he was just playing banged up. I'm not saying they were good and didn't need to be replaced, just that they alone didn't make the entire offense mediocre.

I actually think we should be fine this year unless these guys are just terrible, which I don't expect. And even if one is a total flop, you should be able to get along okay with one average guard. Too many people act like think if you don't have all-stars at every position, you can't possibly have a top offense.

Personally, I think Houck did a really lousy job. I think we'll be better off with Callahan even if the players aren't that much better.

 

[Midswat]

Here's the thing. As bad as people want to make Livings out to be, how come the Bengals had to use a 1st round draft pick to replace Livings? Evidently, they didn't have anyone on thier roster that could adequately replace him.

Here's the thing. As bad as people want to make Curtis Painter out to be, how come the Colts had to use a 1st round draft pick to replace him?


:sbk92

 

[cmd34]

Here's the thing. As bad as people want to make Livings out to be, how come the Bengals had to use a 1st round draft pick to replace Livings? Evidently, they didn't have anyone on thier roster that could adequately replace him.

Umm, I think this hurts your argument more than it helps your argument.

I know, I know. I'm a punk bitch who probably sleeps with my own family members. You won the debate Laz, like usual.

 

[bkeavs]

Here's the thing. As bad as people want to make Curtis Painter out to be, how come the Colts had to use a 1st round draft pick to replace him?


:sbk92

:mock

 

[boozeman]

so again, you just happened to "miss" the game against Arizona, when he supposedly handled Calais Campbell with ease?

And I read all the reviews on Livings by people who looked at him, he wasnt horrible every week.

He also was not consistent. He was either solid or horrid. Aside from just being bad, I cannot think of a worse quality from a starting offensive lineman.

 

[dbair1967]

Go back to CZ, dbair!

Why?

 

[dbair1967]

He also was not consistent. He was either solid or horrid. Aside from just being bad, I cannot think of a worse quality from a starting offensive lineman.

Eh. I'll take a wait and see approach. I'd like to think Callahan had alot of input on Livings and the guy from carolina. He knows what he is looking for, I cant imagine if he thought that either (or both) of them couldnt do the job that we'd have wasted the time and money to sign them.

 

[dbair1967]

You mention the Arizona game like it's some silver bullet that would erase his entire argument.

Lets say he did miss it. Then what, he missed the 1 good game out of 16? Oh yeah, that'll really change people's perspective.

Instead of no good games, he had 1.......haha, get the fuck outta here.

I still think saying he was awful in 15 other games is a massive exaggeration. I cant say I've watched a ton of Bungles games, but when I did he wasnt noticeable one way or another. Thats usually not a bad thing for an OL.

 

[boozeman]

Eh. I'll take a wait and see approach. I'd like to think Callahan had alot of input on Livings and the guy from carolina. He knows what he is looking for, I cant imagine if he thought that either (or both) of them couldnt do the job that we'd have wasted the time and money to sign them.

I would feel better if Callahan had any sort of connection to either player or that they had any sort of noteworthy accomplishments to lean back on. About all we have is that Livings was durable.

 

[Hoofbite]

How many games of Livings with the Bengals have you seen him play to come to a determination on whether he was good or bad? You seem to have already dismissed him out of hand.

I saved myself the pain from watching the Bengals and just looked how how Pro Football Focus graded him for the last 3 years.

Something like 56th ranked guard for each of those seasons.

They watch all the games by the way.

 

[CowboysRMX]

im hoping leary and nagy can step up along with kowlaski. Kowalsi is the guy who impressed me last yr. Just hope they give him a chance to compete instead of just hanging the job to costa.

 

[Hoofbite]

I still think saying he was awful in 15 other games is a massive exaggeration. I cant say I've watched a ton of Bungles games, but when I did he wasnt noticeable one way or another. Thats usually not a bad thing for an OL.

Awful or not, I'm not really sure it's worth arguing over.

When you grade out in the 50s for 3 straight seasons, it's not really worth anyone's time to get too nit picky.

 

[LAZARUS_LOGAN]

I saved myself the pain from watching the Bengals and just looked how how Pro Football Focus graded him for the last 3 years.

Something like 56th ranked guard for each of those seasons.

They watch all the games by the way.

But you didn't see for yourself. So then shut up. You are doing nothing but arguing your opinion of a guy based on someone else's opinion.

 

[Hoofbite]

But you didn't see for yourself. So then shut up. You are doing nothing but arguing your opinion of a guy based on someone else's opinion.

Even if I had seen it for myself, then what?

You dismiss my opinion because I'm not a scout?

I've spent more than enough time on message boards to know how that game works.

You may as well just save everyone a lot of breath and just say that there is nothing short of the team itself saying the guy sucks that would convince you of it.

And for the record, the gradings aren't based on opinion. They're based on what the people who hand out the gradings have seen on film. Now, if you want to attack the validity of the grading system that's fine with me because I myself have pointed out some flaws in their other grading formulas but to just outright dismiss them all together is only a short step from delusion.

They grade the OL using the same formula for each OL. So even if they are flawed to some extent, they are flawed equally for all the graded players.

And out of all the graded players, Livings came in mid-50s for 3 consecutive seasons.

For the record, I actually did watch the opening Bengals game last year. Watched it a handful of times because at one point I wanted to post all the games in condensed format but my computer just won't put out something that I'm willing to put time into. But I was a little encouraged with what I did see. Still not holding my breath that he's some steal of Free Agency.

I still have my access to Game Rewind so maybe I'll watch a few more games.