Broaddus Cowboys/Bills review

[marionbarberthe4th]

40 seconds on the playclock X 3.
2 seconds per play(that's how quickly tashard choice gets taken down if he holds onto the ball)
Mcbriar hang fine is an average of 4.9 seconds

2:11

 

[UVAwahoos]

Plus, they picked up a first down on at least one of those drives, so that buys you more time. Like I said, we did it against Buffalo for essentially the entire 4th quarter. Make the offense score to beat you.

 

[Hoofbite]

No it doesnt. Three and outs dont use up 3 minutes of game time.

I think he was assuming it would take the Lions a little longer than ZERO seconds to score.

If Dallas had used 40 seconds per play and not gained a single first down through 4 possessions, that works out to 8 minutes.

Provided the Lions could do something they hadn't done all day in score, let alone move the ball, it would have been well into the 4th quarter by the time the Lions would have scored their 4th, improbable TD......provided they even scored TDs........4 times.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

No, I saw the run game more effective in one game than it was in the other. I also didnt see Romo throwing 3 balls right into the hands of the oher teams defenders. Romo's 3 picks in that game had nothing to do with playcalling or game management, and everything to do with the QB making a bad decision.

Actually we were running the ball effectively and picking up first downs doing it in the third quarter of the game against the Lions.

 

[dbair1967]

Actually we were running the ball effectively and picking up first downs doing it in the third quarter of the game against the Lions.

See post with research. No, we werent.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

See post with research. No, we werent.

I assume you're referring to this post so i'll look at it.

First series of 2nd half vs Lions, leading 20-3 at the half.

6 plays, 46 yds, TD. Now leading 27-3. 4 passes, 2 runs. The TD was a short pass. All 4 passes on the drive were complete. Jones carried twice for 7 yds.

Second series, leading 27-3

1 play. Romo's pass is thrown into awful coverage and returned for a TD. Now 27-10

Third series:

7 plays run. 5 runs for 25yds. 2 passes. Romo is picked off again, this time on 3rd and 2 and again on a ball thrown into coverage. Now 27-17

Fourth series:

3 runs, 4 passes. The big play on the drive is a long pass to Witten. the 3 run plays total 9 yds. We get a FG and now lead 30-17

Fifth series:, Detroit scores on their series, the lead is now 30-24

3 and out. 1 run, 2 passes. The first down pass is a dumpoff to Jones. The 2nd down run gains 5 yds.

We averaged 3.5 ypc on the first series. The second series Romo threw a pick right away. Third series we averaged 5 ypc. Fourth series 3 ypc. 5th series.. we had 1 run for 5 yards so again 5 ypc. 6th series only 2 yards on 2 carries.

So again, that's:

Series 1: 3.5 ypc
Series 2: Romo pick
Series 3: 5 ypc
Series 4: 3 ypc
Series 5: 5 ypc
Series 6: 1 ypc


So again, we were moving the ball on the ground, picked up 2 first downs on the ground in limited oppertunties, and were getting good chunks of yardage on first down when we ran it.

Running plays on first down in the third quarter netted us, in order:

3 yards
7 yards
4 yards
7 yards
1 yard (but then 6 yards on 2nd and 4)
2 yards


So again, we were moving the ball on the ground if you look at things without trying to put a spin on the numbers.

 

[dbair1967]

I assume you're referring to this post so i'll look at it.



We averaged 3.5 ypc on the first series. The second series Romo threw a pick right away. Third series we averaged 5 ypc. Fourth series 3 ypc. 5th series.. we had 1 run for 5 yards so again 5 ypc. 6th series only 2 yards on 2 carries.

So again, that's:

Series 1: 3.5 ypc
Series 2: Romo pick
Series 3: 5 ypc
Series 4: 3 ypc
Series 5: 5 ypc
Series 6: 1 ypc


So again, we were moving the ball on the ground, picked up 2 first downs on the ground in limited oppertunties, and were getting good chunks of yardage on first down when we ran it.

Running plays on first down in the third quarter netted us, in order:

3 yards
7 yards
4 yards
7 yards
1 yard (but then 6 yards on 2nd and 4)
2 yards


So again, we were moving the ball on the ground if you look at things without trying to put a spin on the numbers.

If you think the above is an example of an effective running game, you have incredibly low expectations.

13 carries for 48 yds and only one rushing first down is mediocre at best.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

If you think the above is an example of an effective running game, you have incredibly low expectations.

13 carries for 48 yds and only one rushing first down is mediocre at best.

They had two rushing first downs in one quarter in limited oppertunities, you arn't even getting the data correct.

And on 3 of the 5 series they had in the second half (not counting the series where Tony threw a pick on the first play, which happened twice even though i already showed we were gaining good chunks of yardage on first down runs) the ypc of over 3.5 is enough to gain first downs. I don't need them gaining 18 yards every rushing play.. just between 3-5 yards a run, which is what they were doing the majority of the time. You lose, sir.

 

[jiggyfly]

If you think the above is an example of an effective running game, you have incredibly low expectations.

13 carries for 48 yds and only one rushing first down is mediocre at best.

That is effective enough to get 1st downs and burn time off the clock what else do you want with a 20 point lead?

 

[dbair1967]

They had two rushing first downs in one quarter in limited oppertunities, you arn't even getting the data correct.

And on 3 of the 5 series they had in the second half (not counting the series where Tony threw a pick on the first play, which happened twice even though i already showed we were gaining good chunks of yardage on first down runs) the ypc of over 3.5 is enough to gain first downs. I don't need them gaining 18 yards every rushing play.. just between 3-5 yards a run, which is what they were doing the majority of the time. You lose, sir.

They had 1 rushing first down in the 2nd half. It came after consecutive runs by Tashard Choice, I just looked at it again. I'm not sure where you are seeing another one, although at the end of the day whether its 1 or 2, its still awful.

Further, when they called rushing plays on first down they had: 3yds, 4yds, 7, 4, 7, 1, 2, and 1 yds on each attempt. Thats 8 carries for 29 yds. Its not atrocious, but its not overly successful either and certainly not enough success to make a team quit throwing the ball altogether. The overall 2nd half total is 13 attempts for 48 yds, that is not controlling a game with your rushing attack.

Romo didnt throw ints because too many passes were called, and thats the bottom line. Romo's three picks came on two really poor decisions, and the 3rd on a grossly underthrown ball when he target was open. You people whining about the playcalling are only doing so because you didnt like the result of the play. What you fail to acknowledge is even had they called a run instead of a pass, it didnt guarantee the ball wouldnt be turned over, and since they couldnt move the chains sufficiently enough by running the ball (only), there's also no guarantee the defense wouldnt have yielded TD's on some or all of those 2nd half possessions anyway. The defense did give up 17 4th qtr points. Romo gave the Lions 14 pts with those two bad throws, but the defense still gave up the other 17.

 

[dbair1967]

That is effective enough to get 1st downs and burn time off the clock what else do you want with a 20 point lead?

No it isnt, and they had two three and outs in the 4th qtr alone.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Thank you! That was my point, to show how idiotic people are being in suggesting that we lost the game due to playcalling for not running the ball enough, when the facts show contrary. Regardless if fumbling results in a lower percentage of being returned for a TD than an INT.

And you cannot go with nothing but straight runs, especially as bad as we were in running the ball, because all that results in is 3 and outs which in truth is the same as a turnover. You keep doing that and that early, an opposing team will slowly and surely get right back into the game.

Seems you are the one with the facts confused. Picking up 3-5 yards per attempt, which is what we were doing the majority of the time in the second half that we ran the ball, is more than enough to sustain drives.

Also, 3 and outs are not the same as a turnover at all, because i'd much rather have teams start deep in their own zone than deep in ours.. as well as i'd much rather have teams have to work to slowly get back into the game, rather than throw a bunch of INT's that allows them to very quickly get back into the game. Your argument makes no sense.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

No it isnt, and they had two three and outs in the 4th qtr alone.

Actually, yes.. it is. If you take the average of all their runs in the second half the ypc is enough to get a first down in 3 tries.

They had 2 first downs in the third quarter alone on rushes, again, in limited opps.

The one you missed was here:

2-4-DAL26

(4:42) F.Jones left guard to DAL 32 for 6 yards (D.Levy; N.Suh).

 

[dbair1967]

Seems you are the one with the facts confused. Picking up 3-5 yards per attempt, which is what we were doing the majority of the time in the second half that we ran the ball, is more than enough to sustain drives.

Also, 3 and outs are not the same as a turnover at all, because i'd much rather have teams start deep in their own zone than deep in ours.. as well as i'd much rather have teams have to work to slowly get back into the game, rather than throw a bunch of INT's that allows them to very quickly get back into the game. Your argument makes no sense.

Honestly your argument doesnt make any sense either. The fact is they werent getting 3-5 yds on every carry. They had plenty of carries with 1 or 2 yds. They couldnt run the ball well enough to sustain drives.

The argument some of you are making is they gave up on the run completely and passed every down, and thats not what they did. In fact it was nearly a perfect 50/50 balance of run/pass. The Lions had already proven in their previous 3 games that they could score points easily and won 2 of those first 3 with 4th quarter come backs (both on the road too)

 

[dbair1967]

Actually, yes.. it is. If you take the average of all their runs in the second half the ypc is enough to get a first down in 3 tries.

They had 2 first downs in the third quarter alone on rushes, again, in limited opps.

The one you missed was here:

I did miss that one, good catch.

5 of those 13 rushes gained 2 yds or fewer, again thats not controlling the ball with the run game.

And it still isnt going to change my mind that there was "bad playcalling". The play call had nothing to do with Romo throwing into coverage, or underthrowing the guy. And none of you know if on any of those 3 picks if Romo changed the play to a pass. On almost every snap they call two plays, and Romo decides what to use at the LOS.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Honestly your argument doesnt make any sense either. The fact is they werent getting 3-5 yds on every carry. They had plenty of carries with 1 or 2 yds. They couldnt run the ball well enough to sustain drives.

The argument some of you are making is they gave up on the run completely and passed every down, and thats not what they did. In fact it was nearly a perfect 50/50 balance of run/pass. The Lions had already proven in their previous 3 games that they could score points easily and won 2 of those first 3 with 4th quarter come backs (both on the road too)

I didn't say every carry. I said the majority of carries they were getting between 3-5 yards.. and im right. You try to exaggerate what i said to prove your point.. and its a pointless way of debating.

Same with you stating that some of us are saying that they gave up on the run completely and passed every down.. clearly that's not what anyone said, you are just exaggerating again to try and prove your point.. when really you have no reasonable point.

The fact is, we were gaining good chunks of yards on most runs, as i illustrated, and we shouldn't have thrown it so much. The amount of yards we were averaging we gained 2 first downs in the third quarter and would have gained more had we stayed with the run game a little more. Also, even if we didn't gain a first down at all (which we did do) i would much rather make them work to slowly get back in the game when they only have a half of football to score 24 points, then give them a chance to regain the momentum by throwing too much and letting them get more picks and very quickly get back into the game. If we ran more and punted, it would take more time off the clock, plus make them start from deep in their own territory most of the time in order to try and score points, instead of how we tried to do it and twice threw picks on the first play of the drive and took little time off the clock and let them start drives from midfield and closer. Anyway you look at it, its better to run more with that lead and that much time left.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

I did miss that one, good catch.

5 of those 13 rushes gained 2 yds or fewer, again thats not controlling the ball with the run game.

And it still isnt going to change my mind that there was "bad playcalling". The play call had nothing to do with Romo throwing into coverage, or underthrowing the guy. And none of you know if on any of those 3 picks if Romo changed the play to a pass. On almost every snap they call two plays, and Romo decides what to use at the LOS.

Romo made bad decisions for sure.. no one is saying this is all Jason's fault. But if it were me in there, for reasons i detailed in the last post, i wouldn't have been passing on first down one single time in the second half. We were setting ourselves up the majority of the time with 2nd and 6 or less. No reason to pass on first down and risk an INT right away to give them the ball right back.

 

[dbair1967]

Romo made bad decisions for sure.. no one is saying this is all Jason's fault. But if it were me in there, for reasons i detailed in the last post, i wouldn't have been passing on first down one single time in the second half. We were setting ourselves up the majority of the time with 2nd and 6 or less. No reason to pass on first down and risk an INT right away to give them the ball right back.

Romo wasnt some first or second yr player, or some mediocre scrub that has major handicaps to his game. He's a probowl calibar player. He absolutely ripped the Lions D apart the first 35 mins, there was no evidence that he was going to meltdown the way he did.

And the Lions had shown they could come back in 2 of their 3 wins. They came back from a 20 pt deficit the week before (on the road) and had proven they could score points. It probably wouldnt have been smart to take the foot off the gas. Further, even after Romo's first two picks (that gave them 14 pts) we still had the lead, and the defense didnt hold it. There's certainly no guarantee Detroit wouldnt have scored two offensive tds in place of those two gimmee pick 6's.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Romo wasnt some first or second yr player, or some mediocre scrub that has major handicaps to his game. He's a probowl calibar player. He absolutely ripped the Lions D apart the first 35 mins, there was no evidence that he was going to meltdown the way he did.

And the Lions had shown they could come back in 2 of their 3 wins. They came back from a 20 pt deficit the week before (on the road) and had proven they could score points. It probably wouldnt have been smart to take the foot off the gas. Further, even after Romo's first two picks (that gave them 14 pts) we still had the lead, and the defense didnt hold it. There's certainly no guarantee Detroit wouldnt have scored two offensive tds in place of those two gimmee pick 6's.

Im just saying.. with a 24 point lead to start the half, after the first pick.. i would have been more cautious. Don't need to take the foot off the gas completely, but like i said, no need to throw the ball on first down at all, and as long as im getting chunks of yards per carry, i'd probably stay with that as long as possible and i'd probably be ok with a couple punts if it came to that. If it gets to a 2nd and 8 or 3rd and 9 than maybe i throw the ball a couple times, but the majority of the time im running it and punting if necessary with that kind of a lead. Much rather pin them deep and make them earn their points than risk giving them the ball short field with momentum, especially after the first "hiccup".

As for your last sentence.. there isn't a guarentee.. but it sure as hell would have been less likely and would have taken much more time off the clock if they had.

 

[jiggyfly]

No it isnt, and they had two three and outs in the 4th qtr alone.

You have a very low football IQ and I am using your definition of football IQ.

I can't give any other explanation for you not understanding how having a 3.5 YPC average is effective when trying to burn the clock with a 24 point lead.