Archer: Cowboys must stick to draft board

[dbair1967]

yea I agree on that. If we trade up for a guard....god help us.

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Depends on what they traded to get there. If they are dead solid sold on Warmack or Cooper being a probowl calibar player for a decade, then moving up a few spots is smart, not stupid.

 

[cmd34(work)]

For me, I get that Warmack and Cooper could be gone by 18 but you are going to have to prove it to me. Meaning, I'm not trading out of 18 until they are both picked. Trading down before hand seems stupid unless you just get overwhelmed with an amazing offer.

Someone is going to want to trade up to 18. SF and Atlanta both feel they are 1 player away. Teams are going to want to get their QB before the late 1st/early 2nd round run on them. Hold out until pick 18 and I'm guessing we will get multiple offers for it.

I love Johnathan Cooper and strongly like Warmack but we just don't have the resources to move up. Hold at 18, make a move once they're picked.

 

[Theebs]

Depends on what they traded to get there. If they are dead solid sold on Warmack or Cooper being a probowl calibar player for a decade, then moving up a few spots is smart, not stupid.

Hey I would love the player, but can we give away a second possible starter in the second round another year?

I would take brockers and wagner over Claiborne everyday of the week after seeing all three play....and its not even close to be honest.

I would hate it if they gave up another wagner again....hate it.

mickey was just talking about how little cap space sf has and how they will most definitely be trying to trade because they don't have enough money for all the players.......

I would rather we stay put at 18, or go back a few if we have a handful of players who would help and then get more players in the 3rd or fourth.

we need a rb if not two, a safety, a tackle, a dt, a guard and imo a fb, plus we are short a tight end....

I really hate the idea of going up for warmack.

 

[bbgun]

Hey I would love the player, but can we give away a second possible starter in the second round another year?

If we traded up say two spots, it would probably only cost us a third, but as cmd says, I'd rather just sit tight and hope one of them falls to us.

 

[ZeroClub]

Tyron Smith? Sean Lee and Bruce Carter?

Hell for years we took mostly DL's with the early picks. I'm not sure why so many think all Jerry does is sit there and think about drafting a WR or something when the fact is, he doesnt.

The first round is usually BWPA.

The second round, lately, has been BIPA.




BIPA = Best Injured Player Available.

 

[dbair1967]

If we traded up say two spots, it would probably only cost us a third, but as cmd says, I'd rather just sit tight and hope one of them falls to us.

I dont think it would even cost that. Maybe a 4th or 5th rounder at worst.

I think (without looking at the value chart) that giving away a 3rd might get us up 5 spots or so.

And of course it dpends on who you are dealing with and how desperate they are. The Browns gave up a 2nd rd pick one yr to move up one spot with Detroit (thats not a typo) so they could get Kllen Winslow. Last year we traded up considerably but got a "bargain" because the Rams had already stolen a ton from Washington, and really wanted to accumulate more picks.

 

[dbair1967]

I would take brockers and wagner over Claiborne everyday of the week after seeing all three play....and its not even close to be honest.

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I think you people are absolutely batshit crazy with this stuff.

Last year all the pre draft talk was how much almost NOBODY wanted Brockers because he was so underwhelming. Brockers ended up having a nice year, but he was not considered anywhere near the level of prospect Claiborne was. Many had Claiborne rated as the top defensive player in the draft, and CB was a position we were really hurting at.

I'm assuming u are referring to the LB Seattle picked in the 2nd rd. He is a good player, but I wouldnt consider him better than either Sean lee or Bruce Carter, the two guys he would have sat behind all year.

Claiborne has a chance to be a really really outstanding CB. We paid what was peanuts to move up from where we were to get one of the elite players in last yrs draft

 

[marionbarberthe4th]

Yea ill trade away a matt Johnson prospect if it means I get legitimacy on the OL for once.

 

[Ben_in_Austin]

Hey I would love the player, but can we give away a second possible starter in the second round another year?

I would take brockers and wagner over Claiborne everyday of the week after seeing all three play....and its not even close to be honest.

I would hate it if they gave up another wagner again....hate it.

mickey was just talking about how little cap space sf has and how they will most definitely be trying to trade because they don't have enough money for all the players.......

I would rather we stay put at 18, or go back a few if we have a handful of players who would help and then get more players in the 3rd or fourth.

we need a rb if not two, a safety, a tackle, a dt, a guard and imo a fb, plus we are short a tight end....

I really hate the idea of going up for warmack.

It's not a completely grim scenario, but really not exciting at all. Warmack is good, but we have too many needs to address, which won't be done in the draft. If you can do one thing pre draft, it's talk to players in FA, so the Cowboys think they have some options there. If there is one position they can address in free agency, it's offensive tackle. And it doesn't look like he'll fall. Personally, I like Cooper, but Warmack does some things a lot of linemen just can't do. But I think, if we take him, he'll fall to us. I don't see us moving up. But who knows.

 

[ZeroClub]

For me, I get that Warmack and Cooper could be gone by 18 but you are going to have to prove it to me. Meaning, I'm not trading out of 18 until they are both picked. Trading down before hand seems stupid unless you just get overwhelmed with an amazing offer.

Someone is going to want to trade up to 18. SF and Atlanta both feel they are 1 player away. Teams are going to want to get their QB before the late 1st/early 2nd round run on them. Hold out until pick 18 and I'm guessing we will get multiple offers for it.

I love Johnathan Cooper and strongly like Warmack but we just don't have the resources to move up. Hold at 18, make a move once they're picked.

I agree with you. If the Cowboys didn't have so many holes, it would be tempting to move up, but as it is, there are just too many holes.

But having said that, it would have made more sense for the Cowboys to move up to fill a clear position of need with a top-flight prospect (e.g., Warmack) this year, than it did last year to move up for Claiborne (after signing Carr) and crippling the team's ability to use a high choice on a greater position of need.

Claiborne cost more than "peanuts." He cost the Cowboys resources that could have been allocated to greater effect. As it is, the team finished 8-8 and out of the playoffs again. In the short term, anyway, the Claiborne move wasn't particularly effective.

Ironically, allocating significant resources to Claiborne last year means it is less viable this year for the Cowboys to allocate a similar amount of resources this year to fill a position of greater need with a top-flight prospect.

 

[marionbarberthe4th]

Shit good post. We are safe with claireborne but I feel like they were chasing waterfalls there

 

[diehard2294]

I love Cooper/Warmack and Richardson but I would not trade up to get any one of them

 

[dbair1967]

I agree with you. If the Cowboys didn't have so many holes, it would be tempting to move up, but as it is, there are just too many holes.

But having said that, it would have made more sense for the Cowboys to move up to fill a clear position of need with a top-flight prospect (e.g., Warmack) this year, than it did last year to move up for Claiborne (after signing Carr) and crippling the team's ability to use a high choice on a greater position of need.

Claiborne cost more than "peanuts." He cost the Cowboys resources that could have been allocated to greater effect. As it is, the team finished 8-8 and out of the playoffs again. In the short term, anyway, the Claiborne move wasn't particularly effective.

Ironically, allocating significant resources to Claiborne last year means it is less viable this year for the Cowboys to allocate a similar amount of resources this year to fill a position of greater need with a top-flight prospect.

Totally disagree with just about all of this.

Giving away one pick didn't cripple the team last yr or in any year going forward.

And the 2011 Cowboys pass defense was epic bad. Like amongst the worst in team history bad. We couldnt cover anybody. They did the right thing by going after a guy like Carr, but we had Jenkins (major injury question mark and only one yr left on his deal) and Scandrick (a guy who had also proven he couldn't be a legit starter or playmaker) and then a lot of nothing behind them.

 

[superpunk]

don't disagree with all of it, homer.

I'd rather have that guy the Rams took or something, plus a safety with the pick we gave up plus more picks this season....so there's something cost but if Mo turns out to be baby champ like I think he will then who gives a flying fuck.

 

[Iamtdg]

I agree with you. If the Cowboys didn't have so many holes, it would be tempting to move up, but as it is, there are just too many holes.

But having said that, it would have made more sense for the Cowboys to move up to fill a clear position of need with a top-flight prospect (e.g., Warmack) this year, than it did last year to move up for Claiborne (after signing Carr) and crippling the team's ability to use a high choice on a greater position of need.

Claiborne cost more than "peanuts." He cost the Cowboys resources that could have been allocated to greater effect. As it is, the team finished 8-8 and out of the playoffs again. In the short term, anyway, the Claiborne move wasn't particularly effective.

Ironically, allocating significant resources to Claiborne last year means it is less viable this year for the Cowboys to allocate a similar amount of resources this year to fill a position of greater need with a top-flight prospect.

Absolutely 100% correct. Claiborne isn't much better than Jenkins. We could have used those other picks in a way more effective manner.

 

[Hoofbite]

I hate this "we'll take the BPA" bullshit. If the BPA when they pick is a QB or CB, we all know they ain't drafting him.

Also, BPA doesn't count for shit if you've got no real ability to even determine who BPA is.

 

[dbair1967]

Absolutely 100% correct. Claiborne isn't much better than Jenkins. We could have used those other picks in a way more effective manner.

WTF?

 

[Iamtdg]

WTF?

Except for injuries, Jenkins was as good as you need back there, and Claiborne is not a ball hawk, so he will be above average to good. I hated the move when we made it, and he hasn't shown me a reason to change my mind.

 

[superpunk]

Claiborne is not a ball hawk

Well not last year but I think if you watch his college days that is exactly what he is. He plays the ball in the air better than any college prospect in forever.

 

[dbair1967]

Except for injuries, Jenkins was as good as you need back there, and Claiborne is not a ball hawk, so he will be above average to good. I hated the move when we made it, and he hasn't shown me a reason to change my mind.

haters gonna hate

Claiborne has freakish ball skills...you'll see