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Dodger12

Super Moderator
Bill and Brady best HC/ Combo in NFL history. We’ve seen what Bill is without Brady as a great DC and an average to above average HC in Cleveland. The one year in New England without Brady missed the playoffs.

Im very excited Brady is going to allow us an opportunity now in Tampa to provide more arguing points which might be the most interesting aspect heading into the next season.
You're doing God's work in this thread, BTW. People here have a habit of minimizing the lack of a franchise QB and blaming everything on the HC who did, in fact, suck. It can be both.

I agree it'll be fun to watch what Brady does in Tampa but it won't really tell the whole story. An aging Brady failing in Tampa does little to minimize what he did in NE. No doubt BB is a great coach, but at somepoint your franchise QB has to carry the team. Great coaching can only take you so far when you don't have a quality performer under center.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
2007 was probably good enough to reach the championship game.

2009 team was on decline.
Complete bullshit.

Either of those teams could have won a title with better overall coaching. And the 2009 team actually went into the playoffs on a major roll. We won our last 3, including a major upset at undefeated New Orleans, a game our D dominated an unstoppable New Orleans team. We then posted shutouts in our last two games of the season and clobbered Philly in back to back games (season ender, plus wild card game)
 

dbair1967

Administrator
Coaching no doubt was a weakness , certainly not a strength and has been for this entire era or time frame the OP described , except arguably under Parcells.

And we’ve had some talent. Even Jerry admits to his greatest regret is not surrounding Romo with more talent. I’d add not providing him greater coaching.

But to suggest we have been greater coaching alone away from winning a championship with the overall rosters we’ve fielded is misleading.

Could greater coaching have taken us further? Possibly but it’s a speculative argument. I’d argue an Elite (generational ) defense or QB might have taken us further as well.
Good grief.

I'd give this 25 hates if I could.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
Patriots had the most Elite QB this era and top defenses which again fit my criteria.

Bill is the greatest defensive guru of this era.
New England defense rankings:

2018- 21st
2017- 29th
2016-8th
2014-13th
2011- 31st
2007- 4th
2004- 9th
2003- 7th
2001- 24th
 

Diehardblues

Cheerleader
Complete bullshit.

Either of those teams could have won a title with better overall coaching. And the 2009 team actually went into the playoffs on a major roll. We won our last 3, including a major upset at undefeated New Orleans, a game our D dominated an unstoppable New Orleans team. We then posted shutouts in our last two games of the season and clobbered Philly in back to back games (season ender, plus wild card game)
You’re certainly entitled to your opinion. But I don’t recall many predicting we’d make a run in 2009. The Viking playoff loss a total beat down . The writing on the wall was evident to most that OL was done.

2007 obviously a disappointing finish as we were upset at home. My final game at Texas Stadium after 36 years.

Id often argued with Bill our chances to win that game would have been greater. But it’s very difficult beating a divisional foe 3 times. Upsets do happen even to the greatest of teams and coaches. And NY got hot at the right time. I seriously doubt we would have beat New England.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
You’re certainly entitled to your opinion. But I don’t recall many predicting we’d make a run in 2009. The Viking playoff loss a total beat down . The writing on the wall was evident to most that OL was done.

2007 obviously a disappointing finish as we were upset at home. My final game at Texas Stadium after 36 years.

Id often argued with Bill our chances to win that game would have been greater. But it’s very difficult beating a divisional foe 3 times. Upsets do happen even to the greatest of teams and coaches. And NY got hot at the right time. I seriously doubt we would have beat New England.
NY got hot at the right time and had a vastly superior HC to our clown in 2007 and 2009. Our team was significantly better than NY and our offense lit them up for the two regular season games (both wins). Then you had ridiculous shit like the Cabo garbage and 2009 playoff run was derailed by a horrendous game plan and mass OL injuries at Minnesota.

I don't know how you can say nobody predicted a "run" in 2009. We were coming off a subpar 2008 (which we entered as the prohibitive favorite to win the conference championship) but everyone knew we had a really talented team in 2009 with several cornerstone players in their primes. Pur playoff season wasnt some fluke no talent team like the 2003 Cowboys making a run, this was a legitimately talented roster.
 

Diehardblues

Cheerleader
New England defense rankings:

2018- 21st
2017- 29th
2016-8th
2014-13th
2011- 31st
2007- 4th
2004- 9th
2003- 7th
2001- 24th
On the most part they had top 10 defenses to go with the most Elite QB. Which fits my narrative.

Need to either have an Elite QB or defense. And or be great on one side of the ball and average to above average on the other side.

We’ve had some great offenses and less than average defenses. The one playoff season we had a top defense in 2003 it carried Quincy to the playoffs.

But we haven’t had a HOF QB or what I’d define as Elite or Generational type defense to carry us to a championship which is the case generally this era with few exceptions.

No doubt we’ve been lacking in coaching much like we’ve been lacking in our front office and leadership. All dysfunctional areas which have created obstacles to overcome . But in the end in most cases it’s about the Elite talent. And we simply haven’t had it in the right areas IMO at QB or on defense.
 

Diehardblues

Cheerleader
NY got hot at the right time and had a vastly superior HC to our clown in 2007 and 2009. Our team was significantly better than NY and our offense lit them up for the two regular season games (both wins). Then you had ridiculous shit like the Cabo garbage and 2009 playoff run was derailed by a horrendous game plan and mass OL injuries at Minnesota.

I don't know how you can say nobody predicted a "run" in 2009. We were coming off a subpar 2008 (which we entered as the prohibitive favorite to win the conference championship) but everyone knew we had a really talented team in 2009 with several cornerstone players in their primes. Pur playoff season wasnt some fluke no talent team like the 2003 Cowboys making a run, this was a legitimately talented roster.
That’s my recollection and take on it.

Most I follow after 2009 felt the writing was on the wall. There were some who wanted to paint a brighter picture we were headed in a better direction after our first playoff win this era but those were the usual overly optimistic group.

And I don’t recall us being the “ prohibitive” favorite to win conference championship in 2009. I’d certainly like to see some evidence of that.
 

Diehardblues

Cheerleader
Good grief.

I'd give this 25 hates if I could.
It’s easy or a lazy analysis IMO to place the total blame on our coaching. It’s certainly been a contributing factor. No doubt our puppetry coaching and dysfunctional ownership have been hurdles to overcome.

But this talent we’ve had is over hyped. I honestly have not seen a championship caliber team wearing a Star on their helmets since the 90’s.

Have we been close to breaking thru? Yes. It’s always a marginal call or play. We had some of those in 60’s, 70’s and 80’s that prevented us from more success.

In most cases I place blame on our lack of talent in key areas while crediting the opposing talent and performances.

Sometimes instead of placing blame for losses , credit needs to be given to others for victories.
 

Diehardblues

Cheerleader
I’m really looking forward to see how this coaching staff does. Maybe we can finally look to hold our talent more accountable.

But I suspect that like most great coaching they will have more success based on their talent level.

And if this core of talent meets the hype surrounding it then we could finally reach our goals.

Let’s hope our usual distractions and interference from our dysfunctional ownership doesn’t meddle or get in the way which will always be a concern regardless our coaching.
 

Diehardblues

Cheerleader
Really? Thought I pretty much laid the blame for just about everything at Jerry's feet.
In case it wasn't clear enough: I pretty much lay the blame at Jerry's feet for just about everything that's happened since Jimmy left.
You might have in which case I applaud . I’m not familiar with your history. I didn’t recognize that responsibility in this thread with OP.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
It’s easy or a lazy analysis IMO to place the total blame on our coaching. It’s certainly been a contributing factor. No doubt our puppetry coaching and dysfunctional ownership have been hurdles to overcome.

But this talent we’ve had is over hyped. I honestly have not seen a championship caliber team wearing a Star on their helmets since the 90’s.

Have we been close to breaking thru? Yes. It’s always a marginal call or play. We had some of those in 60’s, 70’s and 80’s that prevented us from more success.

In most cases I place blame on our lack of talent in key areas while crediting the opposing talent and performances.

Sometimes instead of placing blame for losses , credit needs to be given to others for victories.
I am sure with your great perspective on talented teams that you saw as "championship caliber" those two Giant teams as true juggernauts (even the one in 2011 that gave up 400 pts for the season which was more than they scored offensively, still the only team in league history to do that and win a championship). Or maybe you predicted those injury ravaged 10-6 Green Bay (2010) or Eagles teams (underdog in all 3 postseason games). or the 10-6 Ravens in 2012.

The 2007 and 2009 Cowboys team were just as talented, if not far more talented than any of those teams. The difference as the damn coaching, anybody that can't see that is just blind or a dumbass.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
We’ve had some great offenses and less than average defenses. The one playoff season we had a top defense in 2003 it carried Quincy to the playoffs.
The 2007 defense was top-10 in total yards, recorded 46 sacks. forced 45 turnovers and allowed opponents to complete under 59% of their passes.

In 2009 we finished 2nd in scoring D and 9th in total yards, had 42 sacks, 27 turnovers, gave up barely a 60% comp %, recorded back to back shutouts to end the yr.

I'm not sure how anyone could look at that and say those weren't championship caliber defenses in those seasons.

But we haven’t had a HOF QB or what I’d define as Elite or Generational type defense to carry us to a championship which is the case generally this era with few exceptions.
Joe Flacco and Nick Folk are HOF QB's? Gee who knew.

No doubt we’ve been lacking in coaching much like we’ve been lacking in our front office and leadership. All dysfunctional areas which have created obstacles to overcome . But in the end in most cases it’s about the Elite talent. And we simply haven’t had it in the right areas IMO at QB or on defense.
In another thread I gave you examples of teams that were nowhere near "elite" talent that won championships.

It's the coaching stupid.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
And I don’t recall us being the “ prohibitive” favorite to win conference championship in 2009. I’d certainly like to see some evidence of that.
I said 2008, learnt to read the posts, especially if you are going to try and make a lame argument.

We were 13-3 the prior season with a team everyone thought at the end of the year was a Super Bowl team.
 
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