Might be only thing I agree with Gosselin on- Harvey Martin

dbair1967

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Absolute shit that this guy isn't in the HOF. Was one of the most dominant DE's of all time.

State Your Case: Harvey Martin


MartinHarveyNY

(Courtesy of the Dallas Cowboys)

By Rick Gosselin

Talk of Fame Network

The NFL record book says Michael Strahan holds the NFL single-season record with 22 ½ sacks.

But that’s not even the best season by a pass rusher in the NFC East.

The Dallas Cowboys list defensive end Harvey Martin as their single-season sack leader in their record book with 23. But those sacks came in 1977 — and sacks were not recognized as an official sack by the NFL until 1982.

Martin collected his 23 sacks back when the NFL played a 14-game regular season. Strahan needed 16 games to get his 22 ½ sacks, including a gift sack from Brett Favre in the closing minutes of the season finale that allowed the Giants end to set the record. Martin was not the recipient of any such gifts — and he didn’t discriminate between quarterbacks and running backs, collecting a career-best 85 tackles that season as the Cowboys led the NFL in defense.

In the NFL’s eyes, Martin’s 114 career sacks don’t count, either. That’s more than Hall-of-Fame edge rushers Lee Roy Selmon, Andre Tippett and Elvin Bethea.

Martin was a four-time Pro Bowler, a 1970s NFL all-decade selection, the NFL’s Defensive Player of the Year in 1977 and a Super Bowl MVP in 1978. Yet unlike Strahan, he isn’t in the Hall of Fame. He has never even been discussed as a finalist. His 25-year window of eligibility for Canton came and went, and he’s now in the abyss of seniors candidates.

How does a player with his credentials go unnoticed … much less unrecognized?

Martin was an NAIA All-America out tiny East Texas State. The Cowboys found him in the third round of the 1973 draft, and he provided an immediate impact, collecting nine sacks as a designated pass rusher as a rookie.

Martin led the Cowboys in sacks each of the next four seasons and in seven of the next nine years playing the weakside end in a defensive front that also included Hall-of-Famer Randy White and the former first overall pick of the 1974 NFL draft, Ed “Too Tall” Jones.

In addition to his 23 sacks in 1977, Martin rang up 16 sacks in 1978, 12 in 1980, and 10 in both 1979 and 1981. There wasn’t a better pass rusher in the NFL during that five-year window. Martin helped the Cowboys become not only a dominant defensive unit but a dominant team as well.

During Martin’s 11 seasons, the Cowboys won 72.9 percent of their games (116-43), six division titles and qualified for the playoffs 10 times. The Cowboys reached seven NFC title games and three Super Bowls. In the one Super Bowl the Cowboys won, Martin had two sacks and a forced fumble to key a defensive effort that forced the Denver Broncos into seven first-half turnovers on the way to a 27-10 victory. Martin and White were named co-MVPs of the game.

But somehow the dominance of Martin has been lost in the pages of history. He has since passed away, dying of pancreatic cancer in 2001. His memory — and his play with the Cowboys — deserved better.
 

bbgun

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Meh. If he played prior to 1992 then I could give a shit less.

You're not interested in anything that happened before 1992?

P.S. Jimmy Carter was a terrible US president in the 1970s.
 

Doomsday

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I used to yell "Martinize! Martinize!" when the opposing quarterback dropped back to throw. Loved it when it actually happened, which was often.

Harvey Martin was just plain nasty. Opponents feared Randy White, and rightfully so. But Martin was the one they were really worried about pissing off.

That was by far the nastiest front four in the history of football. Forget the "Steel Curtain" these guys were truly dreaded by opponents.
 

bbgun

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Nor was he a one-trick-pony. Like Ware, he was very good against the run.
 

Doomsday

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Nor was he a one-trick-pony. Like Ware, he was very good against the run.
Yep he could do it all, and very well. All four guys could.

It really was a "pick your poison" defensive line - impossible to double team more than two of them. And if you did, the linebacker corps would eat you alive.
 
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Ware wasn't a one-trick pony, doofus.

And no, I became a Cowboys fan in 1992. Anything that happened prior to that is of little consequence to me.
 

bbgun

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Ware wasn't a one-trick pony, doofus.

er, I know that. I meant that he was good against the pass and the run. in other words, not one dimensional.

And no, I became a Cowboys fan in 1992. Anything that happened prior to that is of little consequence to me.

typical Dallas fan: front runner
 
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How does a player with his credentials go unnoticed … much less unrecognized?

This is a great question. I don't have an answer for it.

I was very much a Cowboys fan throughout his career and I've gotta say, I didn't think at the time that he was a particularly strong HOF candidate.

A part of it must have been that there were so many other truly great players on those teams: Staubach, Renfro, Wright, R. White, Dorsett, C. Harris, D. Pearson. Martin wasn't the 5th best player on his own team. IMO for most of his career he was likely around the 7th best or so.

I'd be happy for him to get into the HOF, though. It isn't his fault that he played on a very talented team.
 

ThoughtExperiment

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Gosselin said it, or sort of did -- sacks weren't an official stat for a lot of his career. But it's idiotic not to go back and count them. It's not like there isn't film of those games.
 
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Maybe Jerry will see fit to put him in the Ring of Honor someday. Oh, by the way, Jerry is a jerk.

Anyway, anyone here heard/read the thoughts of Randy White, Larry Cole, and Ed Jones regarding Martin? Just curious. I don't recall hearing them speak on the topic.
 

dbair1967

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Gosselin said it, or sort of did -- sacks weren't an official stat for a lot of his career. But it's idiotic not to go back and count them. It's not like there isn't film of those games.

I thought I read one time someone did this and he actually had 25 sacks.

I think Deacon Jones was saying one time if sacks had been kept officially that one yr he'd have had close to 30. Have no idea if that's true as I never saw him play.
 

ThoughtExperiment

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Right, I think "someone" has done it, but the NFL never officially has. They should, and record those sacks.

I suspect one reason they don't is they don't want any of the old guys doing better than players of today... Like the Strahan example Gosselin gave. Because today has to be the biggest and best, always.
 
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I'd be happy for him to get into the HOF, though. It isn't his fault that he played on a very talented team.
Didn't stop the HOF from putting all those steelers in the HOF. They all played with other talented players. There is no doubt in my mind Harvey Martin belongs in the HOF & the Ring of Honor.
 

Doomsday

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Didn't stop the HOF from putting all those steelers in the HOF. They all played with other talented players. There is no doubt in my mind Harvey Martin belongs in the HOF & the Ring of Honor.
Yep we had "Too Tall" and "The Manster." But the opponents gave Harvey his "Too Mean" nickname.
 
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