NCAA Vacates USC's 2004 National Championship

[Midswat]

Hey, I'm comparing football to baseball and soccer and you are comparing football to being a doctor and accountant but my argument is the retarded one.

You stated the NFL uses the NCAA to develop their talent, and that these kids should just be allowed to skip college. It's so unfair that they can't, right?

I was simply pointing out that most professions, outside of skilled trades, use college to develop talent.

And your argument is retarded because you make a ridiculous assumption that allowing kids to skip college would somehow prevent cheating in the NCAA.

Instead of acknowledging how retarded this logic is, you go all "ya but I can thinks outside da boxs!!!"

I'm sorry you are too ignorant to understand the simplicity of what it will take to reduce corruption in the NCAA.

If you presented a logical solution to even ADDRESS, let alone reduce corruption in the NCAA, then we'll talk.

As it is, your solution does nothing to address it. At all. Not a ****ing thing.

And you know this.

 

[Cythim]

You stated the NFL uses the NCAA to develop their talent, and that these kids should just be allowed to skip college. It's so unfair that they can't, right?

I was simply pointing out that most professions, outside of skilled trades, use college to develop talent.

And your argument is retarded because you make a ridiculous assumption that allowing kids to skip college would somehow prevent cheating in the NCAA.

Instead of acknowledging how retarded this logic is, you go all "ya but I can thinks outside da boxs!!!"

It is retarded to think that a system that works in baseball, soccer, and other sports can work for football? As opposed to forcing football players through the doctor and accountant model of player development? Right, my logic is the retarded logic here.

If you presented a logical solution to even ADDRESS, let alone reduce corruption in the NCAA, then we'll talk.

As it is, your solution does nothing to address it. At all. Not a ****ing thing.

And you know this.

My solution bypasses the corruption through the Ivy League model. Athletes are students first and do not get scholarships just to play sports. Ask the Ivy League how many times they have been investigated and punished since adopting this model. Those who are most susceptible to take money are able to go pro, leaving behind those that aren't good enough to worry about.

 

[Midswat]

It is retarded to think that a system that works in baseball, soccer, and other sports can work for football?

Yes, because neither baseball, soccer, or any other sport generates the revenue that football does.

Which two college sports generate the most money. Football (by far) and basketball.

Which two college sports have the highest level of cheating? Football and basketball.

Do you think that's a coincidence?

As opposed to forcing football players through the doctor and accountant model of player development?

Attending college isn't mandatory. No one is forced.

How you can't grasp this is beyond me.

Right, my logic is the retarded logic here.

Glad we agree.

My solution bypasses the corruption through the Ivy League model.

The Ivy League model?

The Ivy League is in the NCAA. It's not a seperate entity.

Athletes are students first and do not get scholarships just to play sports. Ask the Ivy League how many times they have been investigated and punished since adopting this model.

That's not a model. They just have much stricter entrance requirements academically than do the vast majority of universities. This has always been the case.


Are you really this retarded? It's not a bad thing to just admit that your logic is flawed and move on.

 

[Cythim]

Your position holds no water, middy. In fact, you don't even have a position. All you can do is try and argue that I am wrong with lame comparisons and trying to push that athletes should be treated like academic professionals instead of like other athletes. That is flawed logic. I must have repeated myself 20 times and explained this to you in 20 different ways yet you are still too egotistical to step off your pedestal and admit that there can be other options besides the NCAA.

Hell, you agreed with me two pages ago by saying players who don't want to be students should go to the CFL, UFL or arena league. I agree with that except for the fact that those are not viable paths to the NFL for high school grads. I only want to see the creation of a path like those you mentioned where the players can be paid and have a solid chance to get into the NFL.

 

[Midswat]

Your position holds no water, middy.

Are you ****ing kidding me? Holy shit, this is rich.

In fact, you don't even have a position.

Yeah, you're pretty much retarded.

I've stated that my position is if the NCAA wants to eliminate cheating, then they need to strike fear into teams and universities with strict punishment. Serious bowl/tv restrictions. Take scholarships away. Incorporate the death penalty.

Force the universities to proactively work to keep their programs clean, as opposed to almost forcing them to act as enablers for the sake of being competitive.

That is how you address the problem.

All you can do is try and argue that I am wrong with lame comparisons and trying to push that athletes should be treated like academic professionals instead of like other athletes.

They are not forced to attend college.

If they decide to attend college, they need to abide by the rules.

I must have repeated myself 20 times and explained this to you in 20 different ways yet you are still too egotistical to step off your pedestal and admit that there can be other options besides the NCAA.

There ARE other options than the NCAA.

Those options are less traveled, and naturally make it significantly more difficult to go to the NFL.

That isn't the NCAA's problem, nor is it the leagues problem.

Hell, you agreed with me two pages ago by saying players who don't want to be students should go to the CFL, UFL or arena league. I agree with that except for the fact that those are not viable paths to the NFL for high school grads.

Why isn't it?

Teams all the time look at other leagues and give players tryouts. Where did Cameron Wake come from? The CFL. Jeff Garcia? The CFL.

The problem is that those other leagues often have to settle for lower tier talent than what comes to the NFL via the NCAA every year.

But if the graduating seniors that comprise the annual Rivals or Scouts Top 150 list would instead opt to develop their talents in the other leagues for a few years as opposed to attending college voluntarily, then they could very well end up in the NFL.

I only want to see the creation of a path like those you mentioned where the players can be paid and have a solid chance to get into the NFL.

They already exist.

 

[Cythim]

Cameron Wake went to Penn State and Jeff Garcia went to San Jose State. The CFL requires a minimum age of 25 or 4 years of college. That path does not exist for high school grads.

 

[Midswat]

Cameron Wake went to Penn State and Jeff Garcia went to San Jose State.

I realize they attended universities.

My point was, NFL teams look outside the NCAA for prospects.

The CFL requires a minimum age of 25 or 4 years of college. That path does not exist for high school grads.

There's still the UFL or Arena league then.

Hell, years ago we had an Arena 2 team in my area, and every year they'd hold open tryouts.

And the NFL looks to the Arena league for players.

 

[Cythim]

I can't find requirements for the UFL, but they are want to target NFL FAs that cannot find a team. The arena league is a joke and only certain types of players can make that transition.

"Some AFL players have gone successful in the NFL, most notably Kurt Warner. Warner played college football at University of Northern Iowa and then the Iowa Barnstormers, taking the Barnstormers to ArenaBowl X in 1996 and ArenaBowl XI in 1997. Others include Anthony Armstrong, Oronde Gadsden, Adrian McPherson, Rashied Davis, Jay Feely, Rob Bironas, Antonio Chatman, Mike Vanderjagt, and Paul Justin. Former Arena League MVP, Jay Gruden (brother of Jon Gruden), went on to coach the UFL team, Florida Tuskers."

 

[Midswat]

I can't find requirements for the UFL, but they are want to target NFL FAs that cannot find a team.

That's an assumption.

The arena league is a joke and only certain types of players can make that transition.

That's an assumption.

Arena football is still football. It's just on a smaller field and they allow for more gimmicks.

But if a talented high school graduate played there, and excelled, he'd certainly get invited to work out for teams.




All you're doing now is continuing to reach for justifications that don't exist for your incredibly flawed argument.

Anyone else would wave the white flag. You're just being stubborn.

I can't wait for the next round of "yeah, buts!!!"

 

[Cythim]

IF... how many high school players go straight to those leagues hoping for a shot at the NFL? The AFL players I provided went to college as well. Your argument that players can use these leagues is an assumption based on what? Absolutely nothing. Those other leagues are looking to make money, not develop talent to send to the NFL. All you're doing is continuing to reach for justifications that don't exist for your incredibly flawed rebuttal.

 

[Midswat]

IF... how many high school players go straight to those leagues hoping for a shot at the NFL? The AFL players I provided went to college as well. Your argument that players can use these leagues is an assumption based on what?
Absolutely nothing.

You're claiming that players have no choice but go to the NCAA, and how unfair that is.

I'm simply pointing out the obvious that (1) they're not forced, and (2) there are other alternatives.

Just because noone choses those alternatives doesn't mean they don't exist.

Those other leagues are looking to make money, not develop talent to send to the NFL.

Oh, so now you want your fantasy developmental league that will allow for thousands upon thousands of graduating seniors to hone their skills in an attempt to get to the NFL one day, to not have an interest in making money?

That's rich.

Meanwhile, those players who weren't in Cynthim's fantasy developmental league in the land of unicorns and dragons, but instead still chose to attend college, would STILL get handouts and illegal benefits from boosters hoping to keep their Alumni's strong/competitive. Which means your original gripe prompting this entire debate went ignored entirely.

And that will fly over your head, yet again, because you're 'tarded.

All you're doing is continuing to reach for justifications that don't exist for your incredibly flawed rebuttal.

That's funny. I'd say the exact ****ing thing to you.

Only difference is, I'm not lying.

Eagerly awaiting your next retarded response.

 

[Cythim]

High school players use the NCAA as the exclusive pipeline to the NFL because it is the only option. This is not refutable yet you continue to bang you head on the wall trying to tell me different. If there were another option multiple players would be using it or would have already used it to break into the NFL. And I'm the retarded one lol

 

[Cythim]

I've addressed that part time and time again in this thread and you even agreed with me at one point. You are chasing your tail now trying hard to win an argument that you cannot win.

 

[Midswat]

High school players use the NCAA as the exclusive pipeline to the NFL because it is the only option.

It's not the only option. That has already been illustrated, regardless of whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

Perhaps a reason why elite talent continues to choose college, instead of another avenue, is because the cheating in the NCAA. It's widespread. I'm not now, nor have I ever denied that.

So these kids are getting paid. It's just under the table.

That, and the obvious much needed development in their skills, as well as their bodies, is why these kids choose college.


We wouldn't be able to determine how many of these kids skipped college for a different route until the NCAA cracked down on cheating.

But creating some logistically impossible fantasy developmental camp as you've suggested would do nothing to resolve that issue.

This is not refutable yet you continue to bang you head on the wall trying to tell me different.

I'm not banging my head against the wall. Trust me. This is easy.

I've engaged in thousands of debates and discussions on line. And I can honestly say, out of anyone I've come accross, you're reubbutals are weak and nonsensical.

And I'm the retarded one lol

Yes. You are.

Is there a reason why you've yet to address how this fantasy developmental league (that did not have in interest in making money, mind you) that would house the thousands upon thousands of graduating seniors every year, who had NFL aspirations, yet did not want to be "forced" to attend college.... would prevent cheating in the NCAA?

I mean, I take your last response as a concession. You really don't have a leg to stand on. But I'd like to see if you can carry this out until the end of the day. You're like a dead mouse, and I'm toying with you now. This entertains me.

 

[Midswat]

I've addressed that part time and time again in this thread and you even agreed with me at one point. You are chasing your tail now trying hard to win an argument that you cannot win.

I've already won.

Several pages back.

You keep insisting on trying to get up, only to fall again.

It's hillarious.

 

[Cythim]

I keep insisting on trying to get up, only to fall again.

Freudian slip much?

 

[Cythim]

In the end I've built a solid argument based on various facts while you have done nothing but provide a bunch of misconceptions to try a rebut my point. The fact that you once again feel compelled to announce yourself the victor is all I need to validate my point. You have claimed a moral victory in a battle that you were never in to begin with.

 

[Midswat]

Again... a concession. You got nothing. Better luck next "debate."

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Get a room you two.

 

[Cythim]

Again... a concession. You got nothing. Better luck next "debate."

To the self-proclaimed winner go the spoils, amirite?