NCAA Vacates USC's 2004 National Championship

[Midswat]

I just re-read this thread, and I came to the same conclusion re: what your point is.

Please clarify where I'm wrong.

Explain it to me like I'm a 5 year old. And don't use words that contain more than three syllables.

 

[Cythim]

Corruption is rampant in NCAA football because it is the only viable path to the NFL. The only way it will change is if another path becomes viable, and likely one that allows players to be paid.

 

[Midswat]

Corruption is rampant in NCAA football because it is the only viable path to the NFL. The only way it will change is if another path becomes viable, and likely one that allows players to be paid.

Corruption is rampant in the NCAA because of boosters.

Players are compensated by the NCAA in the way of a free education. Have you seen college tuition costs?

If they don't appreciate the not only immediate value that comes with free tuition, room and board, books, etc, as well as the long term value that comes with building a foundation which a successful professional career outside of athletics, then that is their problem.

It is not the problem of the NFL. Nor is it the NCAA's problem.

Like everything else in life, they'll just have to pay their dues.

 

[Cythim]

Your argument is nonsensical. It is not the NFL's problem but it is the NCAA's problem. To argue otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

Some of the players do not appreciate the current compensation so they accept compensation that they do appreciate. This will continue until all athletes are students first who also play sports, like the Ivy League model. The model of athletes forced to be students breeds corruption and will continue to do so until it ends.

What happens when a player does appreciate his compensation and decides to stay and finish his degree? The same bags of hot air that think kids should be forced to be students call it a stupid decision.

 

[Midswat]

Your argument is nonsensical. It is not the NFL's problem but it is the NCAA's problem. To argue otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

Some of the players do not appreciate the current compensation so they accept compensation that they do appreciate. This will continue until all athletes are students first who also play sports, like the Ivy League model. The model of athletes forced to be students breeds corruption and will continue to do so until it ends.

What happens when a player does appreciate his compensation and decides to stay and finish his degree? The same bags of hot air that think kids should be forced to be students call it a stupid decision.

The flaw in your logic is you believe these players are "forced" to be in school, when in fact, they are not.

They choose to stay in school. As a result, they should abide by the rules set forth by the NCAA.

If they think they are under-compensated, then they're more than welcome to find gainful employment in another industry until they meet the 3 year post high school graduation requirement as set forth by the NFL.

Skipping college doesn't make it impossible to end up in the NFL. Eric Swann never played in college. Neither did the Bronco's running back who was in the USMC and played during the early 2000's.

Does not playing college ball make it exponentially more difficult to enter the NFL? Sure it does.

Just as not getting a degree in accounting make it exponentially more difficult to get a job as an accountant.

 

[Cythim]

And the flaw in your logic is that you do not accept the problem and acknowledge the only method of dealing with it. Corruption exists and always will. Corruption will not end until the players involved have another method to make it into the NFL. Colleges will continue to recruit these players and boosters will continue to give them stuff. You can play the holier than thou card but it does not answer the problem at hand.

 

[Midswat]

And the flaw in your logic is that you do not accept the problem and acknowledge the only method of dealing with it.

I acknowledge the problem. Players, coaches, and teams accepting illegal benefits ought to be punished.

My problem lies in the methods and inconsistancies in which the NCAA hands out these punishments.

Corruption exists and always will.

Agreed.

Corruption will not end until...

Wait, you just said corruption will always exist.

...the players involved have another method to make it into the NFL.

About 2% of NCAA football players make it to the NFL. Much more than 2% of the players get those secret handshakes.

Colleges will continue to recruit these players and boosters will continue to give them stuff.

And when they're caught, they should be dealt with.

You can play the holier than thou card but it does not answer the problem at hand.

So you're telling me that if the NFL allowed 18 year old kids to enter the NFL, then boosters paying players in the NCAA would cease to exist?

Are you really that naive?

 

[Cythim]

I have already acknowledged that it will always exist on some level so quit trying to play that card. When I say stop or end I mean to the point that it is not a major concern as it is today. The NCAA has shown that it does not have the balls to punish a program to the point that this behavior will stop. Many programs are repeat offenders and SMU's death penalty didn't scare other teams for very long. The penalties USC is suffering will be a minor setback for the program. They can't punish the athletes, coaches, or boosters who are involved. The NCAA has proven to be inadequate in dealing with this problem. You can suggest reform just like you can suggest a playoff. Both have been being suggested since before I was born and still we have what is in front of us.

Go ask anyone at these Universities who are not connected to the athletics programs how best to solve it and they will tell you to remove athletics from college campuses. The Ivy League model works to limit the reaches of corruption. If you want college athletics to be clean it is the best method to use.

 

[Midswat]

You're right. I'm wrong. Thanks for schooling me, Midswat.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Rock Slamdance]

So....USC, huh?

 

[Cythim]

Fixed it for you.

Cute. Your opinion is to fix a system that has been broken for decades and shows no signs of changing. Mine is to change the system. Neither will happen. I'm sad to see you turn this into a petty argument over who is right and who is wrong. I should have expected it from you.

 

[Midswat]

Cute. Your opinion is to fix a system that has been broken for decades and shows no signs of changing.

My opinion to remove cheating in the NCAA is to put the fear of God in the teams/universities. Stricter penalties to include the death penalty.

Mine is to change the system.

You're doing nothing to change the system.

You have some misguided notion that either allowing 18 year olds to either get drafted, or enter some fantasy developmental league where they'd get paid would somehow address NCAA cheating.

Guess what, it wouldn't.

Colleges would still recruit players out of high school. And boosters would still give secret handshakes to those players that attended their universities.

The cheating doesn't just happen to star players.

I'm sad to see you turn this into a petty argument over who is right and who is wrong.

Are you genuinely sad, or are you just trying to be dramatic?

 

[Cythim]

Are you genuinely sad, or are you just trying to be dramatic?

I am here thinking outside of the box and exploring other options. You are here feeding your ego because you thought you ran into an argument that was easy to win. If you are only looking to win against me I'll know not to bother discussing anything with you.

 

[Midswat]

I am here thinking outside of the box and exploring other options.

And I am here pointing out how ridiculous and shitty your idea is.

Maybe you should get back in the box.

You are here feeding your ego because you thought you ran into an argument that was easy to win.

It is/was an easy win.

If you are only looking to win against me I'll know not to bother discussing anything with you.

The whole "win" comment was tongue in cheek. That said, it probably would be in your best interest not to engage me in debate. The last few times you've done so, you've come accross looking utterly retarded.

 

[Cythim]

Right, utterly retarded to look for a different option instead of hoping the NCAA will actually do something to "put the fear of God" into all of the programs that are cheating. You can pretend to win if it helps your ego.

 

[Midswat]

Right, utterly retarded to look for a different option

Again, how would a fraction of the 18 year olds being able to go to the NFL or some fantasy developmental league prevent boosters from cheating with the players at their university?

You're other option doesn't even make sense.

instead of hoping the NCAA will actually do something to "put the fear of God" into all of the programs that are cheating.

I'm not hoping the NCAA does anything because I know it isn't going to happen. But at least my idea addresses the issue.

You can pretend to win if it helps your ego.

Thanks. And you can pretend your argument makes an ounce of sense if it helps your ego.

 

[Cythim]

Hey, I'm comparing football to baseball and soccer and you are comparing football to being a doctor and accountant but my argument is the retarded one. I'm sorry you are too ignorant to understand the simplicity of what it will take to reduce corruption in the NCAA. You have to put words in my mouth to formulate an argument and you keep coming up short. Announcing yourself the winner is just proof of how horrible you are at this.

 

[Cythim]

Congrats!

 

[Rock Slamdance]

Congrats!

Holy Shit. I had no idea Middy was GW! Come to think of it, I've never seen them in the same place....

 

[Cythim]