It’s time to move on from Dez

[Dodger12]

It says Dak didn't have three years as an understudy before becoming the starter.

By this logic, then a guy who sat on the bench for 3 years should be just as successful but we both know that's not the case. I do think that Romo had the benefit of better coaching that identified his potential and knew what had to be reigned in. You may not like what he accomplished in Dallas but Romo was a talented QB. You blame Dez, coaching, OL play, Zek's suspension and the Russians for Dak's shortcomings. You can't even see the contradictions in your argument.

And Dak would be #8 all-time, if he qualified to be counted. (Minimum 1,500 career attempts.) He's 95.5 right now, Romo is 97.1. Wonder where Dak will be when he hits that 1,500 pass attempts mark?

It's funny to look at that chart, all but two of the higher-rated QBs play(ed) in the flag football era I was talking about earlier.

Oh hey lemme ask: Does a QB who is "inaccurate" possibly own a career 95.5 passer rating?

I hope Dak is good enough and around long enough for us to have this discussion about who was better in Dallas. I want Dak to succeed. And to directly answer your question, I do think a dink and dunk passer with limited reps (ie: 2 seasons) can have a 95 passer rating. Brandon Weeden hold the record for most consecutive passes completed but I'd hardly call him accurate or even an average QB. He sucks.

I think Dak's "accuracy" numbers are skewed. He was pretty bad this year and just dinked and dunked his way through the season and that's not really debatable.

 

[Dodger12]

"His era". What does that even mean? That due to the salary cap most teams defenses can't afford to field a good defense? Because that's what it is. It's not so much the rules, it's the fact the defensive talent is spread out. Back during the regular season in 1990 the Giants and 49ers played a game that ended 7-3. Those two teams met in the NFC championship game and had two of the best offenses in the league. What does that tell you about defenses we'll never see again?

It means we're watching flag football. It's a completely different game today. Of course the salary cap plays a role but every team has to make decisions under those constraints. But the game has been geared towards the offense. No one wants to watch a 7 to 3 football game. If you see that score, it's probably because of poor QB play and it just won't draw the fans.

I'm a Romo apologist (as if anyone couldn't figure that out) but Romo might have never survived playing in the 70's, 80's and and part of the 90's. He was an ideal QB for this era of football and we wasted his career with poor coaching and lack of talent, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[Doomsday]

By this logic, then a guy who sat on the bench for 3 years should be just as successful but we both know that's not the case. I do think that Romo had the benefit of better coaching that identified his potential and knew what had to be reigned in. You may not like what he accomplished in Dallas but Romo was a talented QB. You blame Dez, coaching, OL play, Zek's suspension and the Russians for Dak's shortcomings. You can't even see the contradictions in your argument

The only way it's contradictory is when you misrepresent it. I never said anything about other QB's who sat on the bench being successful. That's your deflection.

By the way I also have never said shit about Zeke's suspension affecting Dak. I've said the running game was still servicable without him. I never said his absence affected the passing game at all.

Please inform us, what exactly did Romo "accomplish" in Dallas?

 

[Ragnar]

ALL talent is spread out. When teams focus more resources on defense, they typically have a better defense. And vice-versa.

There's no question by anyone anywhere, that today's rules greatly favor the passing game. They are purposely made, to favor the passing game. It's intentional and not even a secret. Quarterbacks and receivers today enjoy freedom they never had in past eras. And the numbers reflect that.

I don't doubt anything you've said. The rules heavily favor the passing game. But despite those rules if you put a good defense on the field ('13 Seahawks) they can shut down one of the best passing teams the NFL has ever seen. This has been repeated over and over again throughout NFL's history with or without those rules. And that Seahawk team is far from the best D I've seen. They remind me of the '93 Chiefs.

Bottom lie is if the QB don't have time to throw the ball the rules aren't going to matter. If you load up on offense and you're playing a bunch of average defenses all year you're going to score a lot of points, the rules aren't going to matter. The passing game would be up with or without the rules favoring the passing game, just not up as much. #1 defenses today are not remotely close to what they used to be talent wise. Teams cannot afford to stack defenses without hurting the offense severely, putting the D on the field too long until they break.

 

[Doomsday]

#1 defenses today are not remotely close to what they used to be talent wise.

That's subjective. By all accounts, today's NFL athletes are bigger, faster and stronger than their counterparts even as little as 15 years back.

COACHING became paramount. Not talent. The talent is spread around pretty evenly.

 

[Doomsday]

we wasted his career with poor coaching and lack of talent, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

We long established here in another thread, that ROMO wasted Romo's career. Are we still pretending Romo didn't shit the bed in all-too critical times, season-ending times?

C'mon now. This is the old chestnut: poor ole victim Tony, career "wasted" through NO fault of his own.

Mother fucker was a CHOKER. Who would choke, then chuckle about it. Didn't seem to much mind losing, EVER.

FUCK that mother fucker. I was one of his biggest fans, defending him vehemently, until it slowly dawned on me what he was.

 

[TheZoneSucks]

That's subjective. By all accounts, today's NFL athletes are bigger, faster and stronger than their counterparts even as little as 15 years back.

Nope, I disagree with that. Nobody is faster today than Deion, Bo, and others. Nobody is bigger today than Kevin Gogan. Nobody today is stronger than Larry Allen.

Been hearing that "bigger, stronger, faster" since the late 70s. If it were even remotely true then by now we'd have 7 foot tall, 400 lbs, 4.2 forty timing athletes.

There is only so far the human body can go.

 

[Dodger12]

The only way it's contradictory is when you misrepresent it. I never said anything about other QB's who sat on the bench being successful. That's your deflection.

You attributed his success to having three years as an "understudy." You didn't expand and it's a pretty simplistic point of view. Having the benefit of learning from other QB's is certainly a benefit, but the coaching staff identified something in Romo to keep him around to develop. Darren Woodson called Romo the best QB on the team when he was running the scout team. That's pretty high praise from a veteran.

Please inform us, what exactly did Romo "accomplish" in Dallas?

You mean other than having every passing record for a franchise with multiple legendary QB's? Or the 4th highest passer rating in NFL history? Or the highest QB rating in December? Or being the NFC passing yards and touchdown leader during a season? Or leading the NFL in passer rating during the a season and twice in the NFC?

If there was ever a player who suffered from a lack of coaching, a lack of defense or not having an even average GM with a vision to build the team and help maximize his talent, it's Romo. But keep making excuses for Dez and I'll be glued to the TV hoping that one of his dump off passes to Zek on 3rd and long goes all the way.

 

[Dodger12]

We long established here in another thread, that ROMO wasted Romo's career. Are we still pretending Romo didn't shit the bed in all-too critical times, season-ending times?

C'mon now. This is the old chestnut: poor ole victim Tony, career "wasted" through NO fault of his own.

Mother fucker was a CHOKER. Who would choke, then chuckle about it. Didn't seem to much mind losing, EVER.

FUCK that mother fucker. I was one of his biggest fans, defending him vehemently, until it slowly dawned on me what he was.

You're entitled to your opinion and nothing either of us will say about Romo will change the other's opinion. Like I said, if Dak has half the career Romo has had, statistically speaking, he'll give the team a chance to win. But right now, I'm just praying he breaks 50 yards passing in the first half. Baby steps.

 

[Ragnar]

That's subjective. By all accounts, today's NFL athletes are bigger, faster and stronger than their counterparts even as little as 15 years back.

When I said "talent wise" I did not mean individual talent, I meant relative to their era. You had stacked defenses back then where you rarely, if ever, see that now. Even so, I believe we peaked as athletes back in the early 90s. It has to at some point. It was pretty obvious from the 70s to the 90s, not so much anymore.


If you watch playoff games played back in the 90s between some of these defensively stacked teams, you'll notice a difference from today's game. It looks faster and definitely more violent. Similar to how a defense would look today if you stacked it with top talent.

 

[Ragnar]

Nope, I disagree with that. Nobody is faster today than Deion, Bo, and others. Nobody is bigger today than Kevin Gogan. Nobody today is stronger than Larry Allen.

Been hearing that "bigger, stronger, faster" since the late 70s. If it were even remotely true then by now we'd have 7 foot tall, 400 lbs, 4.2 forty timing athletes.

There is only so far the human body can go.

Larry Allen wouldn't be human in today's game.

I think what a lot of people are noticing is the amount of quality players in the NFL as opposed to what it used to be, not necessarily bigger, faster, stronger, just a lot more of them. This will coincide with money. The more you're getting paid, the more competition for the job.

 

[Doomsday]

You attributed his success

He had NO success, by Roger Staubach's definition of it.

I didn't attribute his stats to three years as a understudy. It was quite clear in the context of what you asked, "what does that make Dak" and the answer is, at least three years less experienced in the pro game.

You mean other than having every passing record for a franchise with multiple legendary QB's? Or the 4th highest passer rating in NFL history? Or the highest QB rating in December? Or being the NFC passing yards and touchdown leader during a season? Or leading the NFL in passer rating during the a season and twice in the NFC?

Yes he has done very well for himself. Accomplished nothing, however. Team passing records? That ain't shit - it's not like we've ever been a bombs-away team, ever, anyway. So the fuck what?

If there was ever a player who suffered from a lack of coaching, a lack of defense or not having an even average GM with a vision to build the team and help maximize his talent, it's Romo.

Poor ole picked on Tony. Was completely powerless based on what the poor sap was saddled with!

But keep making excuses for Dez and I'll be glued to the TV hoping that one of his dump off passes to Zek on 3rd and long goes all the way.

They gonna make Dez the QB?

By the way, you don't get to a 95 passer rating with just dink and dunk, to answer that earlier chestnut. Take a look at how the rating is calculated, then get back to us.

Been hearing that "bigger, stronger, faster" since the late 70s. If it were even remotely true then by now we'd have 7 foot tall, 400 lbs, 4.2 forty timing athletes.

NFL has a height limit. Ever hear of "Too Tall" Jones and why he's called that?

There's no question that on average NFL players are bigger, stronger and faster than they were as little as 15 years back. 300-lb linemen were rare, now it's a prerequisite. For starters.

 

[Doomsday]

Like I said, if Dak has half the career Romo has had, statistically speaking, he'll give the team a chance to win.

That was before it was pointed out to you his career passer rating sits at #8 all time.

If you watch playoff games played back in the 90s between some of these defensively stacked teams, you'll notice a difference from today's game. It looks faster and definitely more violent. Similar to how a defense would look today if you stacked it with top talent.

Except today, they wouldn't be allowed to be nearly as violent.

I think what a lot of people are noticing is the amount of quality players in the NFL as opposed to what it used to be, not necessarily bigger, faster, stronger, just a lot more of them.

A lot more common to see the bigger, faster, stronger ones today. I am talking about "on average" and there's no way to rationally dispute that.

 

[icup]

so hows that cap money being spent ???

 

[theoneandonly]

In an article published today, Sports Illustrated's Albert Breer quoted a Dallas Cowboys staff member who was critical of the performance of receiver Dez Bryant. The comment is indicative of what appears to be a movement by some in the organization to move on from Bryant.

The article contained the following quote from the unnamed Cowboys employee:

“Based on last year, he does very few things really well.”

Opinions on Bryant's performance level, and his prospects for the future, vary greatly between sports media members and Cowboys fans. It wouldn't be surprising that the same divide exists in the team's front office.

There is a rising belief that the two biggest voices in the organization, Jerry Jones and his son Stephen, are on opposite sides of the Dez Bryant issue. The assumption is that Jerry wants to keep Dez, as he is generally loyal even to a fault, and that Stephen is ready to shed Bryant's contract and move the team forward.

Cowboys Staffer Critical of Dez Bryant's Game ✭

 

[Doomsday]

“Based on last year, he does very few things really well.”

Something we've pointed out here, many times over the last few years. He's a one-trick pony.

 

[theoneandonly]

The article contained the following quote from the unnamed Cowboys employee:

Probably Sanjay or whatever his name is.

It wouldn't be surprising that the same divide exists in the team's front office.

I doubt there is any divide. Everyone who isnt senile wants him gone.

 

[Dodger12]

Interesting video if anyone has some time.

[video]https://youtu.be/GRp2FNw371Q[/video]

 

[Doomsday]

Interesting video if anyone has some time.

That's funny to watch. Let's see: Dez himself, his coaches, most casual fans, Dak, and opposing players all say he needs work running precise routes. Possibly they're all wrong!

I don't remember anyone saying Dez CAN'T run routes. Pretty easy to disprove a claim no one's made.

 

[Dodger12]

Yes he has done very well for himself. Accomplished nothing, however. Team passing records? That ain't shit - it's not like we've ever been a bombs-away team, ever, anyway. So the fuck what?

Team passing records ain't shit? Whatever. That's just a stupid comment to make. It means you've got a quality QB....a franchise QB.

He had NO success, by Roger Staubach's definition of it.

The team didn't have any success. We got what we expected out of a QB. A guy that's accurate, has a good enough arm and can read defenses. He was a franchise QB whether you agree with it or not and he made millionaires out of scrubs like Miles Austin and Larent Robinson.

Poor ole picked on Tony. Was completely powerless based on what the poor sap was saddled with!

I notice you go with the sarcasm post when you get stupid and have nothing.

By the way, you don't get to a 95 passer rating with just dink and dunk, to answer that earlier chestnut. Take a look at how the rating is calculated, then get back to us.

It's why I said for Zeke to take a dump off to the house. You can absolutely be a dink and dunk passer and have a 95 QB rating. Just ask Brandon Weeden. He had a 92 QB rating and a 72% completion percentage in 2015 and he still went 0 and 3 and was benched. Pathetic.