ThoughtExperiment

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The whole thing is a huge mess, there's no doubt about that.

As to why we can't just hire a HC and let him hire his staff like real teams do it, well, his initials are JJ.
 

GloryDaysRBack

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Really sounds like Robinson won't be back..

I'm not sure what the big deal is here..everyone knew Jerry called the shots..what's the surprise? Nothing.

At the end of the day, 2 major changes needed to be made... We needed a new DC and a new play caller..


BOTH were accomplished.
 

Theebs

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Really sounds like Robinson won't be back..

I'm not sure what the big deal is here..everyone knew Jerry called the shots..what's the surprise? Nothing.

At the end of the day, 2 major changes needed to be made... We needed a new DC and a new play caller..


BOTH were accomplished.

yea but if the wrong guy is doing it we are not really accomplishing what we should be.

you can pretend your way around who is in charge and if jerry hired these people then they will answer to him.

once upon a time parcells ran jerry off the practice field now the head coach cant even have final say on his coaches or what his exact role is.

meanwhile, romo, ware, witten are staring at the end of there careers.
 

dbair1967

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sorry I disagree on the coordinators.

.

You can disagree, but you'd be wrong. Cameron WAS fired because he stunk, and the team immediately got better and made a super bowl run they almost assuredly wouldnt have made with him.

And the Falcons offense improved after replacing Mularkey
 

superpunk

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I completely agree this feels like a mess and all but if you think about it is it really that weird or out of the norm or do we just perceive it that way because Jerry is involved?

Cam Cameron and other coordinators are fired all the time, whether at the HC's discretion or not. Then they're replaced under the same head coach. We don't sit around wondering whether or not the HC is ok with it or had a hand in the decision, but since Jones is involved we assume Jason is sitting around with his thumb in his bum crying in a corner while Jones overhauls the staff solo and forces unwanted coaches and changes upon him. I don't think that's the case, because I don't think Jason would stick around if it was. Yes they are probably butting heads on some things, but ultimately it has felt all along to me like Jerry is giving Jason one last chance to win on his own terms.
 

ThoughtExperiment

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but ultimately it has felt all along to me like Jerry is giving Jason one last chance to win on his own terms.
I think so, too. In his own way he's actually trying to give Garrett one last chance to win. Ideally the HC would make his own hires, but I like this better than keeping everything the same as last year.
 

Theebs

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I think so, too. In his own way he's actually trying to give Garrett one last chance to win. Ideally the HC would make his own hires, but I like this better than keeping everything the same as last year.

we don't even know whats what yet.

I imagine on offense it will be Callahan oc, wes Phillips OL, RB coach?, WR Coach? TE Coach?

that is a lot of change. The new guys wont know these players as well right away which means garrett will be doing a lot with them anyway.

I could come around to all of this if we make good hires at the assistant positions.

Tice -TE, Sporano OL, Jackson RB, no idea on wr coach off the top of my head.
 

dbair1967

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I think so, too. In his own way he's actually trying to give Garrett one last chance to win. Ideally the HC would make his own hires, but I like this better than keeping everything the same as last year.

Its similar to the Chan Gailey situation after the 1999 season. It was obvious Gailey needed to be replaced as the playcaller. Jones asked him to hire a new OC and Gailey refused, then got canned.

If nothing else, Garrett is showing to be more flexible than somebody like Gailey was.
 

Theebs

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Why do we think he isn't?

If I was just looking at it from afar, to me Rob Ryan seems like a Jerry hire while Kiffin seems like someone Garrett would prefer having around.

I don't think ryan was an anybody hire, we got stuck with him because he was what was left. We should have hired todd bowles.

I imagine had pasqualoni not got a head coaching gig in college it would have been him.
 

GloryDaysRBack

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You may not like who was hired..that's a valid argument...

I'm just saying the proper changes have been made...so that's success In itself.

Whether or not these coordinators turn out to be good hires remains to be seen
 

cmd34(work)

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I still can't believe there's (educated) Cowboy fans left in this world who still don't think Jerry is behind every move. It's insane. The guy tells you, shows you, and shouts it from the mountain top... unbelievable.
 

superpunk

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There's a difference between being behind every move and forcing coaches on someone.




homo
 

cmd34(work)

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You may not like who was hired..that's a valid argument...

I'm just saying the proper changes have been made...so that's success In itself.

Whether or not these coordinators turn out to be good hires remains to be seen

Replacing crap with crap is still crap Glory.

Replacing ineffective and lazy (Ryan) with outdated and ancient (Kiffin) is not a move that inspires confidence. The ONLY REASON I semi-like the move is that I've felt we have been adding/drafting 4-3 personnel for the last few years.
 

GloryDaysRBack

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Clearly hiring shitty coordinator isn't something to get excited over

But lets give the new guys a chance before we deem them shitty

Personally, I'm very excited about the defensive staff. We have really good coaches on that side of the ball.

Marinelli was a huge get.

Callahan has had success in this league..lets see what he can do

We don't know for sure Callahan sucks. We know for sure Garrett sucks. That's why we should be happy.
 

ThoughtExperiment

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we don't even know whats what yet.

I imagine on offense it will be Callahan oc, wes Phillips OL, RB coach?, WR Coach? TE Coach?

that is a lot of change. The new guys wont know these players as well right away which means garrett will be doing a lot with them anyway.

I could come around to all of this if we make good hires at the assistant positions.

Tice -TE, Sporano OL, Jackson RB, no idea on wr coach off the top of my head.
I think it was Mosely who said he thought it could be Phillips to TE coach and we get an OL coach.

Agree that Sparano would probably be the best. But what do you think of the reports that he wasn't too happy with Garrett getting all the credit for the 2007 offense? (If he needs a job I bet he'd still come here, though.)
 

bkeavs

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Tim Brown calls out Bill CallahanUpdated: January 22, 2013, Brown's comments to SiriusXM NFL Radio on Saturday were earlier reported by ProFootballTalk.com, which was provided audio of his remarks.


The Ben & Skin Show
Tim Brown joins the Ben & Skin Show to talk about his recent comments about current Dallas Cowboys assistant coach Bill Callahan and the Oakland Raiders' loss in Super Bowl XXXVII.


Brown said that when the Raiders got the game plan on the Monday before the Super Bowl, it was a run-heavy attack taking advantage of Oakland's size advantage on the offensive line. However, Brown said Callahan scrapped the plan on Friday to the shock of the team.

"We all called it sabotage ... because Callahan and Gruden were good friends. And Callahan had a big problem with the Raiders, you know, hated the Raiders. You know, only came because Gruden made him come. Literally walked off the field on us a couple of times during the season when he first got there, the first couple years."

Gruden had been the head coach of the Raiders from 1998-2001, and Callahan was his offensive coordinator. When Gruden moved on to Tampa for the 2002 season, Callahan was made head coach, and the two wound up in the Super Bowl against each other.

Brown tried to backtrack some from the word "sabotage" Tuesday in an interview with "The Ben and Skin Show" on 103.3 ESPN Radio in Dallas but still implied the facts of the situation leave many questions about Callahan's loyalty at the time to the Raiders.

"I don't think he would have sabotaged the Super Bowl but & this is the problem we have, because of his relationship with Gruden, because of his disdain for the Raider organization, thats what makes people get to that conclusion," Brown said Tuesday.

Brown said "sabotage" was the word that was thrown around the Raiders' locker room.

This isn't the first time Brown has made these accusations against Callahan. The receiver also made these claims four years ago on the morning of the Super Bowl.

"I've been talking about this for 10 years," Brown said in his interview with 103.3 ESPN Radio in Dallas.

Brown stressed that he was expressing his opinion and had no proof that Callahan intentionally doomed his own team.

"You know, can you really say that? That can be my opinion, but I can't say for a fact that that's what his plan was, to sabotage the Super Bowl," Brown said. "He hated the Raiders so much that he would sabotage the Super Bowl so his friend can win the Super Bowl. That's hard to say, because you can't prove it.

"But the facts are what they are, that less than 36 hours before the game we changed our game plan. And we go into that game absolutely knowing that we have no shot. That the only shot we had if Tampa Bay didn't show up," he said.

Brown said center Barret Robbins, who disappeared from the team in the days before the game and did not play, begged Callahan not to change the game plan.


Williamson on Brown's Comments
Tim Brown's accusations against Bill Callahan are powerful but there won't be any consequences. The Buccaneers will always be the winner of the game and the Raiders will always be the loser, Bill Williamson writes. Blog

"Barret Robbins begged Coach Callahan, 'Do not do this to me. I don't have time to make my calls, to get my calls ready. You can't do this to me on Friday. We haven't practiced full speed, we can't get this done,'" Brown said.

Brown wouldn't correlate Robbins' absence from the team with Callahan's decision, however.

"I'm not saying one had anything to do with the other. All I'm saying is those are the facts of what happened Super Bowl week. So our ire wasn't towards Barret Robbins, it was towards Bill Callahan. Because we feel as if he wouldn't have did what he did, then Barret wouldn't have done what he did," Brown said.

Brown said "everybody knew Barret was unstable anyway" but the team couldn't fathom Callahan would change plans at the last minute.

"So to put him in that situation -- not that he was putting him in that situation -- but for that decision to be made without consulting the players the Friday before the Super Bowl? I played 27 years of football. The coaches never changed the game plan the Friday before the game.

"I'm not trying to point fingers at anybody here, all I'm saying is those are the facts of what happened. So people look at Barret and they say all these things, but every player in that locker room will tell you, 'You'd better talk to Bill Callahan.' Because if not for Coach Callahan, I don't think we're in that situation," he said.

Brown said in his interview with 103.3 ESPN Radio in Dallas that he made his comments, not to disparage Callahan, but to defend Robbins.

Jon Ritchie, the starting fullback for the Raiders in that game and a former ESPN NFL analyst told ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen in a text that he agrees with Brown's comments.



Barret Robbins begged Coach Callahan, 'Do not do this to me. I don't have time to make my calls, to get my calls ready. You can't do this to me on Friday. We haven't practiced full speed, we can't get this done.'


-- Tim Brown, in comments on SiriusXM NFL Radio

"I've said it for years. What we practiced heavily during the week is not what we ran in that game. Could have been due to Barrett's absence. It was never explained to me. I believe I said it on the record every year we talked about the Super Bowl (when he was with ESPN for four years). I always thought it would get sensational like this," Ritchie wrote in the text.

However, another former Raiders offensive player who didn't want to be named, disagreed with Brown.

"No, he (Tim) isn't right. While there was always dysfunction, that didn't happen. If anything Bill wanted to kick Jon's a--. Nobody would do that. Brutal. We got out-played and out-coached. Period," the former player wrote in the text to ESPN.

Running back Zack Crockett, who also was on that Raiders team and is now a scout for the team, said he thought Callahan changed the game plan only because of Robbins' disappearance.

"He may have known something we didn't know," Crockett told ESPN Radio's "Mike & Mike in the Morning" of Brown.

Crockett said "everybody was in shock" when Robbins left the team because he made all the offensive calls. He agrees with Brown that "with the offensive line we had, it was going to be a downhill game" if the original game plan was used.

Oakland rushed the ball only 11 times in the Super Bowl loss to the Buccaneers, and two of those attempts were by quarterback Rich Gannon. Gannon attempted 44 passes in the loss.

Gannon on Tuesday defended Callahan.

"In terms of Bill Callahan, let me just say this: He was a good football coach, he was a good man," Gannon said Tuesday on SiriusXM NFL Radio. "We all wanted to win."

Gannon said he believes the fact that the Raiders didn't change the verbiage on offensive calls that Gruden installed for the team big factor in Oakland's loss.

"So much of our verbiage and terminology was a carryover from what Jon Gruden had installed in terms of our run checks, and so we were calling certain plays and guys like Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks were calling out the runs. So it kind of took us out of our no-huddle plan at the line of scrimmage," Gannon said in the interview.

Robbins was diagnosed as bipolar after that incident but regained his spot in the starting lineup the next season after undergoing treatment at an alcohol rehabilitation center. However, the Raiders released Robbins in 2004 after he tested positive for steroids.

In addition to stays in alcohol and drug rehabilitation programs, Robbins has had several run-ins with law enforcement since the 2004 season.

Brown's comments about Callahan came just days after he questioned the Bears' hiring of coach Marc Trestman, who was the Raiders' offensive coordinator when Brown was on the team.

"I don't want to say it was a joke, but I just never saw Trestman as being a head coach," Brown said last week on "The Waddle & Silvy Show" on ESPN 1000 in Chicago.

Brown had posted nine straight 1,000-yard receiving seasons with the Raiders entering 2002, the year Trestman took over as the team's offensive coordinator. In that 2002 season, Jerry Rice emerged as the team's leading receiver and Brown finished with 930 yards.

"The year he took over as offensive coordinator is also the year my reign with the Raiders ended because he made Jerry the No. 1 receiver instead of myself," Brown said. "The year before I made the Pro Bowl and caught [91 passes for 1,165 yards] ... and the year afterwards, the year he takes over, I think I came like 50 yards from catching 1,000 yards in 10 or 11 straight seasons.

"Hey, look, I'm not a selfish player, but come on, if I put the work in, make this happen for me. We had some interesting words about that part of it."

Brown is one of 15 modern-era Hall of Fame finalists for the class of 2013. The Hall's 46-member selection committee will meet in New Orleans on Feb. 2 to make its selections.

Callahan is currently the Cowboys' offensive line coach.
 

GloryDaysRBack

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Baltimore just forced out Cam Cam, that wasn't Harbaughs move. As a matter of fact, Harbaugh was completely against it.

Just bc Jerry is calling the shots, doesn't automatically mean all the moves are wrong.

Fuck, even a clock is right twice a day. This old fuck has to get something right eventually, no?
 

LAZARUS_LOGAN

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new ST coach probably hired today too...some speculating Mike Tice for OL/TE coach

We're getting a good OL/TE coach in Tice, if he's coming here. He was the Oline coach for the Vikings that featured Todd Steussie, Randal McDaniel, Jeff Christy, Korey Stringer, David Dixon, Mike Birk---Tice is credited for developing Mike Birk, who right now is the starting Center for the Ravens. All those players combined for 10 trips to the Pro Bowl. The Vikings consistantly had one of the best Olines in the league under OL coach Tice.

If Tice is on board, it would be wise for the scouts to pick his mind on OL.

I know this all sounds like what people were saying about Callahan, but how many Pro Bowl linemen has Callahan developed/mentored?
 
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