LAZARUS_LOGAN
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ThoughtExperiment
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See, at least you admit it.
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The reason our whole beef started is because I said the bottom end of the roster was amongst the worst in the league. You lost it saying I was crying and being dramatic. You didn't try to prove me wrong with examples. You just said it out of pure team spirit. I'm always willing to debate. Your approach is we are good because I love the team. My approach is we're in trouble because player A, B, C, D. etc. are not NFL caliber players.
I believe I was proven right with the way our back-ups have performed. I'm ready to accept your apology.
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I don’t remember the post exactly and i’m not in the mood to go looking for it. The problem i have with your posting style is you paint everything with a broad stroke to get a dramatic effect. I think i responded by saying that we were deep at some spots (cornerback for example) and some spots we were not. I think that still holds true.
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What dramatic effect am I going for? We have like 8 posters. Sorry Dooms.
I don't think we are deep at CB. Patmon was overhyped by the fanbase. White is an okay reserve. Claiborne is a bust and Carr is way overpaid. Now if you are saying we are deep at CB compared to S, I'll agree, because the safeties are bad and fall under my original comment: "bottom of the league" caliber players.
I think the FO has done a really poor job finding and developing the overall roster. I will put our star players against anyone's. I just think our back end depth (player 40-53) is really poor comparative to most teams and that comes back to haunt you when injuries occur.
I don't think we are deep at CB. Patmon was overhyped by the fanbase. White is an okay reserve. Claiborne is a bust and Carr is way overpaid. Now if you are saying we are deep at CB compared to S, I'll agree, because the safeties are bad and fall under my original comment: "bottom of the league" caliber players.
I think the FO has done a really poor job finding and developing the overall roster. I will put our star players against anyone's. I just think our back end depth (player 40-53) is really poor comparative to most teams and that comes back to haunt you when injuries occur.
ThoughtExperiment
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Seems like I remember that, too. Something along the lines of everybody knows we have great depth at corner and if you say otherwise you're basically being a hater.
I think our secondary has proven it's the weakest part of our defense and maybe our whole team. Carr and Claiborne have been okay. Patmon has already been benched and nowhere near the Scandrick clone he was billed to be.
Part of the problem is some people believe the DC.com and even DFW media opinions that are basically cheerleading bits.
I think our secondary has proven it's the weakest part of our defense and maybe our whole team. Carr and Claiborne have been okay. Patmon has already been benched and nowhere near the Scandrick clone he was billed to be.
Part of the problem is some people believe the DC.com and even DFW media opinions that are basically cheerleading bits.
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Good depth:
DL, Corner, LB, TE, RB
Not good depth:
OL, QB, WR, Safety
I think this is a fair assessment. When you made those comments, it was before we had a number of injuries. Depth gets worse the more injuries you accumulate because you have to drag more guys off the street.
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I see it differently. Depth was always bad, fans are just now realizing it because they are being exposed. It was neglected and now the team is paying the price.
I agree with TE and DE. I don't think we have good depth at DT. If Kyle Wilber is starting at LB, depth is a question there too. I don't think Gachkar is a player. The University of Minnesota kid is unproven. Hitchens has regressed. Still don't think we have depth at CB and as far as RB, sure we have 3 guys (4 with Dunbar) but none of them have shown they can come close to being as effective or impactful as Murray.
Bob Sacamano
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For the record, I never bought into the Patmon hype.
Bob Sacamano
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But I hate your life.
Scot
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The way I look at it is i would rather be happy about the few good spots we have and look forward to in the games as opposed to being negative because I'm expecting them to shit the bed
If they shit the bed then so be it. I'll be disappointed or pissed then, but not before.
Kind of like the situation with Hardy
I was excited about his skill set and the possibility of what he would bring to the table. And I got shit on for it. Turns out I was right about him. He performed as advertised
Now that's not to say it will always turn out that way. And with this team it could be the reverse more often then not. But I'm going to look for the positive spots in our team before I assume they will let me down. If they let me down so be. But I'd rather have an entire week of being pumped for the game then an entire week dreading how bad they game "might" be
If they shit the bed then so be it. I'll be disappointed or pissed then, but not before.
Kind of like the situation with Hardy
I was excited about his skill set and the possibility of what he would bring to the table. And I got shit on for it. Turns out I was right about him. He performed as advertised
Now that's not to say it will always turn out that way. And with this team it could be the reverse more often then not. But I'm going to look for the positive spots in our team before I assume they will let me down. If they let me down so be. But I'd rather have an entire week of being pumped for the game then an entire week dreading how bad they game "might" be
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Ehh, no you didn't.
So, here we see you don't understand the difference between Homerism and reasonable fandom. Everyone here is always pumped for the game. Reasonable people understand it is a poorly coached and ran team with many foibles and fumbles - both on and off the field - and pretty much any win they get comes in SPITE of the coaching and management. That doesn't in any way dampen enthusiasm. No one is "dreading" game day.
You're making a assumption with zero evidence again.
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Let me take you back in time to 1979. This was the Dallas Cowboys who were pretty much league dominant, and were ahead of the curve in anything related to team management - innovators in the draft, player personnel, offense, defense you name it, Dallas was the standard bearer, the other teams were trying to catch up, and it showed every week, on the field. Back then it was safe to assume they were going to win - the question only ever was, by how much.
Time passed and competition got better. And our brain trust pretty much ran out of ideas and draft magic. After three NFC Championship game failures in a row it was becoming a little bit apparent we had a aging roster, and teams were scheming better, drafting better and coaching better. We were no longer innovators. But, not much changed.
This is how the miserable 80s happened. All we really did was brought in Hershel Walker as a cure for our ills, and let Tony Dorsett go to Denver. And still we fans for the most part, believed. But slowly for some, it started to sink in that the game was passing Tom Landry by.
1983 season - we get stomped by the 49ers, 42-17 in week 16. We go limping into the playoffs at 12-4 and the frikkin Rams stuff us, 24-17 in the wildcard. It was a harbinger of things to come. The Flex defense, designed primarily to stop the run, could not handle what was to become known as the "West Coast Offense" which used short passing instead of the running game, for ball control. And our "multiple offense?" No longer a mystery at all to most defensive coordinators in the league.
1984 - 9-7 and unthinkably, missed the playoffs!
1985 - 10-6 was enough that year to win the division, then we get shut out in the divisional round by the Rams, again, 20-0. Yeah, upfield pressure style of DL play blows up the "multiple offense."
By now many fans could see the writing on the wall, but of course not the Homers.
1986 - The Homers were talking Super Bowl with the acquisition of Walker! Good times were back! Yeah, the new toy was shiny and flashy and all, but 7 and fucking 9 was not. 3rd place, NFC East.
1987 - the strike year. No playoffs as we managed only 7-8 with a good number of veterans who didn't honor the picket lines. Yes, a totally scab Redskins team beat us 13-7 even with Danny White, Dorsett, Walker, and most of our real team out there.
1988 - The bottom falls out completely. 3-13 and really, we were that bad. There were magically far less Homers - or like Homers are wont to do even today, they just stayed silent when the blind faith in the team doesn't translate to wins on the field.
Okay so then we get to the 90s and Jimmy Johnson builds a consistent winner through innovation both on the field and in the draft - yes, the draft. Jimmy invented the "trade scale" still in use today league wide. Anyway, we win two Super Bowls. Then we win a third one with Jimmy's team after Jerruh assumes full control. A lot of us were doomsayers at this point, because we could see the clown Jerruh was destroying everything Jimmy built and bringing in weakass Yes men coaches with no innovation or really skill in them at all. But the Homers? Rabid, out in force and talking three more titles before Troy retired! Just blind fucking faith with no reasoning behind it at all.
That last Super Bowl appearance was SB #30. The one this year is number 50. It has been 20 years since Dallas even had a sniff, at a Super Bowl. And now the internet is prevalent and the Homers just can't help themselves - the Church of the Dallas Cowboys has evangelists everywhere. It's always "our year" every fucking year. They foam at the mouth and jump up and down for joy every time we sign a new player. Most of them are too young to have lived through the rot and decline of the 80s, so they don't know it when they see it. They don't know when they see actually worse, for 20 years.
It's easy to be a Rah Rah Homer. You just live in a fucking fantasy land that is all sunshine and rainbows. That fantasy land just ignores the fact that today's NFL is a shoddy shell of its former self, with parity and all the bullshit rules. And it breeds mediocrity - most of the teams in the league, ARE mediocre as a result. You have 5 or 6 perennially bad teams, 5 or 6 perennially good teams, and 20 or so ho hum perennially mediocre teams. And Dallas is and has been, one of those mediocre ones for the last 17 years at least.
We're one of those 20 or so mediocre teams who with the right breaks and some good luck, can crank out a occasional 12-4 season. Can even pop up and maybe win a Super Bowl like the 2007 Giants did in their charmed year. But very unlikely.
NONE of the above means we don't love the team, and don't want it to win, and don't get joy out of watching them. It just means we understand what it is and manage our expectations accordingly. And literally, cringe when people who sound like 12 year-olds, continue to Homer out no matter what happens, no matter the W-L record, no matter how poorly the team performs. And of course make every excuse imaginable.
Because, we once were you. Then we became adults. 20 years of mediocrity and failure taught us that.
So excuse the fuck out of us when we berate Homers and Cheerleaders, poke fun at them and cajole them, take their money in bets and don't foam at the mouth with every new player signing. We KNOW this play, have seen the script over and over and know it by rote.
Nothing good is ever going to happen with Jerry Jones, alive. Period. And we also know why this is. We know, and bless our hearts you fucks, we try to educate.
Time passed and competition got better. And our brain trust pretty much ran out of ideas and draft magic. After three NFC Championship game failures in a row it was becoming a little bit apparent we had a aging roster, and teams were scheming better, drafting better and coaching better. We were no longer innovators. But, not much changed.
This is how the miserable 80s happened. All we really did was brought in Hershel Walker as a cure for our ills, and let Tony Dorsett go to Denver. And still we fans for the most part, believed. But slowly for some, it started to sink in that the game was passing Tom Landry by.
1983 season - we get stomped by the 49ers, 42-17 in week 16. We go limping into the playoffs at 12-4 and the frikkin Rams stuff us, 24-17 in the wildcard. It was a harbinger of things to come. The Flex defense, designed primarily to stop the run, could not handle what was to become known as the "West Coast Offense" which used short passing instead of the running game, for ball control. And our "multiple offense?" No longer a mystery at all to most defensive coordinators in the league.
1984 - 9-7 and unthinkably, missed the playoffs!
1985 - 10-6 was enough that year to win the division, then we get shut out in the divisional round by the Rams, again, 20-0. Yeah, upfield pressure style of DL play blows up the "multiple offense."
By now many fans could see the writing on the wall, but of course not the Homers.
1986 - The Homers were talking Super Bowl with the acquisition of Walker! Good times were back! Yeah, the new toy was shiny and flashy and all, but 7 and fucking 9 was not. 3rd place, NFC East.
1987 - the strike year. No playoffs as we managed only 7-8 with a good number of veterans who didn't honor the picket lines. Yes, a totally scab Redskins team beat us 13-7 even with Danny White, Dorsett, Walker, and most of our real team out there.
1988 - The bottom falls out completely. 3-13 and really, we were that bad. There were magically far less Homers - or like Homers are wont to do even today, they just stayed silent when the blind faith in the team doesn't translate to wins on the field.
Okay so then we get to the 90s and Jimmy Johnson builds a consistent winner through innovation both on the field and in the draft - yes, the draft. Jimmy invented the "trade scale" still in use today league wide. Anyway, we win two Super Bowls. Then we win a third one with Jimmy's team after Jerruh assumes full control. A lot of us were doomsayers at this point, because we could see the clown Jerruh was destroying everything Jimmy built and bringing in weakass Yes men coaches with no innovation or really skill in them at all. But the Homers? Rabid, out in force and talking three more titles before Troy retired! Just blind fucking faith with no reasoning behind it at all.
That last Super Bowl appearance was SB #30. The one this year is number 50. It has been 20 years since Dallas even had a sniff, at a Super Bowl. And now the internet is prevalent and the Homers just can't help themselves - the Church of the Dallas Cowboys has evangelists everywhere. It's always "our year" every fucking year. They foam at the mouth and jump up and down for joy every time we sign a new player. Most of them are too young to have lived through the rot and decline of the 80s, so they don't know it when they see it. They don't know when they see actually worse, for 20 years.
It's easy to be a Rah Rah Homer. You just live in a fucking fantasy land that is all sunshine and rainbows. That fantasy land just ignores the fact that today's NFL is a shoddy shell of its former self, with parity and all the bullshit rules. And it breeds mediocrity - most of the teams in the league, ARE mediocre as a result. You have 5 or 6 perennially bad teams, 5 or 6 perennially good teams, and 20 or so ho hum perennially mediocre teams. And Dallas is and has been, one of those mediocre ones for the last 17 years at least.
We're one of those 20 or so mediocre teams who with the right breaks and some good luck, can crank out a occasional 12-4 season. Can even pop up and maybe win a Super Bowl like the 2007 Giants did in their charmed year. But very unlikely.
NONE of the above means we don't love the team, and don't want it to win, and don't get joy out of watching them. It just means we understand what it is and manage our expectations accordingly. And literally, cringe when people who sound like 12 year-olds, continue to Homer out no matter what happens, no matter the W-L record, no matter how poorly the team performs. And of course make every excuse imaginable.
Because, we once were you. Then we became adults. 20 years of mediocrity and failure taught us that.
So excuse the fuck out of us when we berate Homers and Cheerleaders, poke fun at them and cajole them, take their money in bets and don't foam at the mouth with every new player signing. We KNOW this play, have seen the script over and over and know it by rote.
Nothing good is ever going to happen with Jerry Jones, alive. Period. And we also know why this is. We know, and bless our hearts you fucks, we try to educate.
ThoughtExperiment
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In that prediction thread, the vast majority of us predicted great things this year. So are we really that negative anyway?
Jerry still pisses me off, and I think his pool boy Garrett sucks. But the rest of the team is very solid, or should be. And Tony is much better than solid. When he comes back I expect us to roll. I still think it's us and the Packers, and I think we have more talent.
Now is our management lousy enough to screw that up? That's the question.
Jerry still pisses me off, and I think his pool boy Garrett sucks. But the rest of the team is very solid, or should be. And Tony is much better than solid. When he comes back I expect us to roll. I still think it's us and the Packers, and I think we have more talent.
Now is our management lousy enough to screw that up? That's the question.
ThoughtExperiment
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It really felt, to me anyway, like Stephen Jones was stubbornly trying to prove a point. Which is incredible arrogance and yes, malpractice.
I guess we should be used to that by now, but it still stinks.
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Ignorance in, they talked themselves into believing a dumb, panty/cologne shoplifting thief could replace the league's leading rusher. But really, they didn't care about replacing him because of what they believed would be a healthy Romo. They don't place much value on a dominating run game. It's just not sexy enough. The only reason we saw one last year was because of Tony's back issues.
Obviously the plan this year was to return to previous 8-8 form, weak running game and let Tony carry the offense. Worked of course, until they lost Tony.
Other teams out there have lost their starting QB this season, in one of the worst ones for QBs we've seen in years. But all those other teams, they somehow manage to continue winning.