Cowboys opponents have now gone 5 straight games with no offensive holding calls

[dbair1967]

Sort of OT, but my question is, when did holding become basically legal as long as you don't put your arms around the defender?

Or asked another way, when did coaches become so confident grabbing jersey wouldn't be called (as long as it's inside the torso) that coaches started actually teaching it that way?

Guess it depends on who does it.

Didn't seem to matter when the GB player had David Irving in the choke hold on that game winning pass play in the playoffs last yr.

 

[dbair1967]

Romo during the game Sunday even commented on it, saying Tyron Smith's more blatant holding is him compensating for his bad back. And the stats lend credence to that - before he was hurt you never saw him get called for holding. Because beast that he is, he never had to bearhug or horse collar.

Yeah but a couple of the holdings called on him (I believe he has 4 for the season now, which is tied for most in the league with Ronald Leary) have been pretty picky too. They all haven't been blatant take downs or grab and pulls. that call on the Zeke TD vs Washington was garbage.

 

[dbair1967]

I know I'm always surprised at how often it happens in the NFL. It really is multiple players on every single play.

Maliek Collins was held twice on the same play last week vs Wash

 

[English Cowboy]

Sort of OT, but my question is, when did holding become basically legal as long as you don't put your arms around the defender?

Or asked another way, when did coaches become so confident grabbing jersey wouldn't be called (as long as it's inside the torso) that coaches started actually teaching it that way?

When coaches realized that the officials were unwilling to call holding on every play (which they could), because the game would be unwatchable and would take forever to finish.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

When coaches realized that the officials were unwilling to call holding on every play (which they could), because the game would be unwatchable and would take forever to finish.

Ha, no doubt... but I wonder when that really happened. Maybe it's always happened and great cameras, HD, super-slow-mo, etc. have just made it more obvious, but it seems to me it's become rampant the last 5-6 years or so.

 

[Dodger12]

Every training camp, the league sends officials to every team where they explain what generates calls. For offensive holding the standard is blatant/obvious holding. The bearhugs, arm bars, jersey grabs where the jersey stretches, the horse collars, stuff that is very easy to see. Offensive lineman for generations are coached to avoid these and instead keep the hands inside but still grab whatever they can grab. That's the subtle, "hidden" holding and it happens on almost every play.

When players get sloppy/lazy and have bad habits anyway, they commit the blatant/obvious type of holding.

We cleaned our act up last week compared to the week before, clearly there was some remedial coaching going on. Much fewer holding calls against us was the result.

I'm not asking for your opinion on what constitutes a hold. I've seen some ticky tacky calls on Fred who mauled his guy to the ground. They called it a hold. I see it. And your explanation still doesn't explain the fact that it's really odd, unheard of, really, that an NFL team has 5 straight games where the opposing team doesn't get called for one hold. That's a really hard stat to reconcile for me. And I'm far from a homer. But I'm not blind either.

 

[Dodger12]

Yeah but a couple of the holdings called on him (I believe he has 4 for the season now, which is tied for most in the league with Ronald Leary) have been pretty picky too. They all haven't been blatant take downs or grab and pulls. that call on the Zeke TD vs Washington was garbage.

Yeah, that was my point. I've seen some garbage penalties called against Dallas but somehow Dooms wants us to believe that the opposition doesn't hold on ANY play, or at least holding as he now defines it. 5 games/20 quarters and counting. That's unheard of.

 

[English Cowboy]

Ha, no doubt... but I wonder when that really happened. Maybe it's always happened and great cameras, HD, super-slow-mo, etc. have just made it more obvious, but it seems to me it's become rampant the last 5-6 years or so.

Maybe the increased amount of passing over the years leads to more holding. Also, most running attacks these days employ the zone blocking system, where the offensive lineman is often left reaching for the guy he's supposed to be blocking. It's the best explanation I can come up with.

 

[cmd34]

Didn't seem to matter when the GB player had David Irving in the choke hold on that game winning pass play in the playoffs last yr.

Yes that was blatant. There were 3 officials staring right at it as well. If I was Jerry Jones I would have demanded an explanation and I would show that damn replay over and over again on the big screen to embarrass those ref's every time they work a Cowboy home game.

 

[Doomsday]

Yeah, that was my point. I've seen some garbage penalties called against Dallas but somehow Dooms wants us to believe that the opposition doesn't hold on ANY play.

I never said anything like that. In fact I said just the opposite. I see now your problem is either lack of reading, or lack of reading comprehension.

 

[Doomsday]

I'm not asking for your opinion on what constitutes a hold.

I didn't give you any opinions. I explained what "hidden" holding means, which IS what you asked.

 

[dbair1967]

Yes that was blatant. There were 3 officials staring right at it as well..

Those are the ones that really bother me. I get it they cant call it every time. I get it that sometimes they genuinely don't "see" it, but when the replay clearly shows guys staring right at and they still don't call it, what is the explanation for that?

The one that happened to Lee Sunday vs KC was pretty easy to see. It was right in the middle of the backfield and two refs are looking right at him, yet neither one calls it.

 

[Doomsday]

And your explanation still doesn't explain the fact that it's really odd, unheard of, really, that an NFL team has 5 straight games where the opposing team doesn't get called for one hold. That's a really hard stat to reconcile for me.

I am saying ONLY that to me it is far more likely this is explained by happenstance combined with better technique than it is explained with moonbat conspiracy theories, they're out to get us shit.

If that's not reasonable to you, then I've no help for it.

 

[dbair1967]

Sorry Dooms, it isn't reasonable

 

[Doomsday]

Sorry Dooms, it isn't reasonable

"They're out to get us" is more reasonable than "Happenstance combined with better technique?"

 

[dbair1967]

"They're out to get us" is more reasonable than "Happenstance combined with better technique?"

With all the blatant examples that show one way or another, yeah.

I don't know what the reason is, but there IS clearly something to why refs are flagging us for far more holding calls than our opponents, and at the same time now going 5+ games avoiding a single call of holding on the other team.

Our team pass rush numbers (not just the sacks, but also the number of pressures and QB hits) all rank near the top of the league, yet even against a missmash OL unit like Washington trotted out the week before last, or a totally overmatched team like SF the week prior to that, no holding calls.

 

[Doomsday]

I don't know what the reason is, but there IS clearly something to why refs are flagging us for far more holding calls than our opponents, and at the same time now going 5+ games avoiding a single call of holding on the other team.

Our team pass rush numbers (not just the sacks, but also the number of pressures and QB hits) all rank near the top of the league, yet even against a missmash OL unit like Washington trotted out the week before last, or a totally overmatched team like SF the week prior to that, no holding calls.

I can accept this as reasonable. It's not conspiracy crap.

As to the first part - it was demonstrated last week that when we clean up our act we get fewer holding calls. As to the opponent? I'm saying it could be true for them too.

 

[dbair1967]

Yes that was blatant. There were 3 officials staring right at it as well. If I was Jerry Jones I would have demanded an explanation and I would show that damn replay over and over again on the big screen to embarrass those ref's every time they work a Cowboy home game.

 

[Doomsday]

Would love to see the actual video replay of that one.

 

[Dodger12]

I never said anything like that. In fact I said just the opposite. I see now your problem is either lack of reading, or lack of reading comprehension.

Oh, then when they did hold it must have been that dreaded "hidden holding." 20 quarters my man. If I was the head coach, I'd be all over the refs and take my well earned fine like a man. If it walks like a duck.....