Scot
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- Thread starter TheZoneSucks
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I don't give a shit about posting, I am sure you know that. If you think there existed blatant obvious holding by KC it should be no problem posting a video showing one such example. You can't seem to grasp that it's up to you two conspiracy buffs to proof up, it's not up to sane people to just buy this nonsensical infantile shit.
This bullshit of "the refs have conspired to help our opponents" is so infantile and stupid on its face, really it shouldn't even be dignified with replies.
No, it's actually one of us (you) getting angry and upset that not everyone is just mindlessly grunting agreement when you try to sell this stupid infantile shit.
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I've many times said I don't think its necessarily that the refs have "conspired to help our opponents" but there is CLEARLY something up. Whether its that some of these guys genuinely don't like the Cowboys, or maybe are deep into Vegas trouble, or are following instructions by th master because Goodell is PO'd over Zeke Elliott and Jerry I don't know, but there is something up.
Again, tons of proof out there. Anybody with two eyes can see it.
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X Files!
The disagreement is really simple. I don't allow for the nonsensical conspiracy moonbattery and you don't allow for simple happenstance combined with how sloppy, lazy and blatant we are about our holding.
You subscribe to nuttery as a possibility, I do not.
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Rather be a stooge than a moonbat nutboy.
If you would allow for the slightest possibility of happenstance combined with our idiot coaching leading to lazy, sloppy blatant holding by us, you'd approach reason.
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Do you know where we rank this year in penalties asshat?
And out of curiosity, please name me the teams you believe are "well coached"
Again, numerous of these holding calls against us have been EXTREMELY picky to say the least, several this year were clear phantom calls. They haven't all been where our games wrapped their arms around the other guys head and tackled him from behind.
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Just about all of them, compared to Ginger and his troupe.
Every one we've discussed here with videos and pictures, have not been what you describe and you refuse to proof up and show us any. It's just your biased opinion.
Although some of this might have occurred, what I have seen is just blatant obvious bearhugs and the horse collars, the jersey stretches and the armbars. And these are what the refs are going to call when they see it. And no, they don't see everything. We got away with a few of these yesterday.
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It's just the loons who see what they want to see, and you're seeing what you want to see regardless of what it really is.
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So it's been 20 quarters, 5 full football games since we've seen a ref call a holding penalty against the other team and Dooms doesn't think that sounds kind of strange? Especially considering the DL is having a good year sack wise (top 5)? I don't think I've ever seen that in my entire life. I wonder what the longest such streak is.
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Did I not acknowledge that a long time ago, and again today? Of course it's strange, but it doesn't a x-files nutbar conspiracy support. I explained what I think is most likely, a combination of happenstance and the opponent being quite a bit better at hiding their holding than we are. Every offensive lineman gets away with holding, multiple times in every game. But the clumsy blatant obvious ones get caught a lot more.
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I laughed so hard at your post last night I couldn't answer. I went to bed thinking I read it wrong and it would either disappear in the morning or I misunderstood it. I mean, what does that even mean? How do you "hide" a lineman holding?
I'm not sure it's a conspiracy but, at some point, I do believe there is some Dallas bias with some of these refs. When I see calls like the Dez non-catch in GB which sure looked like a catch in every other football game I've watched prior to that really makes me wonder. Or soem BS roughing the passer penalties or personal fouls. Or T-Will (?) getting called for too many men in the huddle on a routine substitution that you'll never see called again. Except for us they pulled that one out of the woodwork on a crucial play/drive. It's become the norm so much that I almost expect some penalty after a big play, especially if the game is on the line.
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The difference between what the refs can easily see and what they can't easily see. It's basic stuff, you have blatant obvious holding and you have subtle, "hidden" holding. Watch o-line play more closely.
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I watch O-line play very closely. I see the hooks and the holds. It's an arbitrary call that's left to the refs. You assume that they don't see it and I can agree to a certain point. It's human nature and everyone makes mistakes. But 20 quarters of football against a pretty decent D-line without one holding call is probably unheard of.
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Every training camp, the league sends officials to every team where they explain what generates calls. For offensive holding the standard is blatant/obvious holding. The bearhugs, arm bars, jersey grabs where the jersey stretches, the horse collars, stuff that is very easy to see. Offensive lineman for generations are coached to avoid these and instead keep the hands inside but still grab whatever they can grab. That's the subtle, "hidden" holding and it happens on almost every play.
When players get sloppy/lazy and have bad habits anyway, they commit the blatant/obvious type of holding.
We cleaned our act up last week compared to the week before, clearly there was some remedial coaching going on. Much fewer holding calls against us was the result.
ThoughtExperiment
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Sort of OT, but my question is, when did holding become basically legal as long as you don't put your arms around the defender?
Or asked another way, when did coaches become so confident grabbing jersey wouldn't be called (as long as it's inside the torso) that coaches started actually teaching it that way?
Or asked another way, when did coaches become so confident grabbing jersey wouldn't be called (as long as it's inside the torso) that coaches started actually teaching it that way?
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It's not legal, it's just the difference in what they look for.
When refs started showing up at training camp telling them what they look for? I don't know specifically when this all developed but even back as far as the 70s through the early 80s when I was playing ball they taught us how to get away with holding. How to hide it and what not to do as far as grabbing goes. In the NFL it's a highly developed and detailed art form.
ThoughtExperiment
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Hmm, interesting. I never remember it being taught by anyone when I was a kid but maybe that was coincidence.
I know I'm always surprised at how often it happens in the NFL. It really is multiple players on every single play.
I know I'm always surprised at how often it happens in the NFL. It really is multiple players on every single play.
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Romo during the game Sunday even commented on it, saying Tyron Smith's more blatant holding is him compensating for his bad back. And the stats lend credence to that - before he was hurt you never saw him get called for holding. Because beast that he is, he never had to bearhug or horse collar.