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Or that guy running as Libertarian?
Fiscally conservative. Socially liberal. Noninterventionist, but wants a robust national defense. Government does too much, spends too much, polices the world too much. He wants to abolish the IRS, the Department of Education, HUD, etc. Get the government out of our everyday lives, reform the justice system when it comes to victimless crimes.

As a republican governor in a majority democrat state, he was elected and re-elected by a landslide. He vetoed 750 bills during his terms as governor, usually because of the add-on spending provisions that were snuck in.

His running mate, Bill Weld, was a republican governor in Massachusetts... notoriously blue state. He won re-election also by a landslide being fiscally conservative and socially liberal.
 

NoMoRedJ

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Fiscally conservative. Socially liberal. Noninterventionist, but wants a robust national defense. Government does too much, spends too much, polices the world too much. He wants to abolish the IRS, the Department of Education, HUD, etc. Get the government out of our everyday lives, reform the justice system when it comes to victimless crimes.

So why is that guys like this cant get elected? Almost every person I ever talk to that doesnt vote Democrap values these things.

Most tea party people would go for that stuff. But the Establishment held out and that fizzled once Glenn Beck was out at Fox. There was no real push for the tea party on a national level. The annoying Sarah Palin screeching isnt going to be enough to keep any momentum going.

No 3rd party candidate is going to have a prayer at getting elected. They say good stuff, but have no chance. At least with trump he says a lot of the right stuff and he has a chance to be president.
 
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Doomsday

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Im anything but an advocate for big government. If it were up to me Id reduce the government by about 90-95%. Id have a federal government for national defense primarily and not a whole lot more. AT the state or local level Id have govt mostly for roads, trash, police & fire, and not much else. Id keep the govt out of the education system.

Im all for true competition and a free market, but dont really have that with our current mess where the govt helps to protect monopolies. True competition in a true free market is what is best for consumers. If we would let the market dictate prices for goods and services we would see better prices for consumers and better and more efficient run businesses. Everybody would benefit. Instead we have a bureaucratic inefficient system that limits true competition and essentially protects the greedy ways of corporations and politicians.

If you think otherwise then you are the foolish and stupid sucker.

Have a true free market where true competition exists and then the market would dictate prices. Instead we have a controlled system that keeps prices up and makes it hard for true competition.
But, you've been advocating for moar big government in the form of import tariffs. How do you square that?
Do you think there is any real competition when it comes to energy/oil and what consumers pay? With utilities? With tv/internet? Healthcare? The list could go on.

Tell me yes there is true competition and then you reveal that you are the biggest dumbass in this thread.
This all started ironically with the breakup of "Ma Bell." That was your first real big government move to actually do as you're suggesting, but it was to free the market of evil monopolies like the Bell system was identified as. It had the exact opposite effect did it not? Today you have massive conglomerates controlling everything pretty much. Nobody was arguing yet another red herring of yours.
we have had nothing but politicians with 'core beliefs' for how long and look where it has gotten us. You are just being blind and willfully stupid.

WE NEED MASSIVE CHANGE. And right now Trump is our best bet. Get your head out of your ass.
Trump has shown NO change at all! Wall that Mexico pays for? He later said they would be paying via import tariffs, which is really we the consumer paying. How does Trumps moar big government proposals in any way represent change? He's going to name a political insider like Gingrich as his VP - how's that in any way "change?" The irony of your last sentence towers.
 

Doomsday

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Can you articulate Hillary's? Or that guy running as Libertarian?
Noted you cannot articulate Trump's core beliefs, and it's noted previously you know nothing about his platform. And yet here you are, ready to pull the lever for him.
 

Doomsday

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Self aggrandizement. More wealth; greater influence. Just like the rest.
I believe he is akin to the dog who finally caught the fire truck - has no damn idea at all what to do with it. This is why he's talking about surrounding himself with career politicos who helped get us into this mess.
I personally think he stands a great chance of being the next U.S. President to be assassinated, because our political establishment has been so deeply compromised with anti-American elements who won't easily give up the ground they've gained.
Nah I believe he will resign long before that, probably in the first 6 months of his presidency. He doesn't yet realize that every moment of his life both waking and sleeping will be monitored and controlled as POTUS, and I am pretty sure he won't be able to tolerate that at all.

I believe he did this just for self promotion and mostly as a joke, and was as shocked as most that he caught fire. He jumped on a runaway train with no emergency brake and no way to jump off. He will take that jump at his first good opportunity.
 

Dodger12

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you are just as blind as dooms. Where have all these 'experts' to presidents for the last 40 years or so gotten us?

And Trump has figured out what Joseph Goebbels and the democrats have known for a long time with people who have short attention spans and are not willing to look hard at things.

Repeat the same thing again and again- eventually it becomes accepted whether its true or false.

That is why "Hilary is a crook' Hilary is incompetent' Hilary has been bought and sold more times than any stock in the market' is the way HE HAS TO GO.

There are too many people in this country too lazy, too stupid, too blind to actually look at things and ask intelligent questions. IF we had that we would not have Hilary and Obama and the rest of our current political class on both sides of the isle. You have TO KICK THE TABLE OVER AND TRUMP IS OUR BEST BET AT THAT.

Blind to what? Substance still means something and Trump is going to have to provide some of that when he debates Hillary. Hilary should be in jail but she's not. I can't fathom why anyone would support her based on her record and lack of integrity but they do. If there's one thing that's readily apparent, Hilary's supporters will vote for her no matter what. They won't vote for Trump or the Republican ticket. Trump has to attract the independent voters and those folks who have yet to make up their mind. There's also a possibility he may attract some blue collar union workers and get some Dems who may vote for him as well but he's going to be on stage for a couple of hours at a time. The punchy one liners will wear thin and I say that supporting him and liking his non-PC approach but it has to have limits.
 

Doomsday

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Trump has to attract the independent voters and those folks who have yet to make up their mind.
I'm one of the millions of undecided voters who will decide this election. There's no way in Hell Hitlery ever gets my vote, and I really really want to vote for Trump, but neither he nor anyone else has given me anything close to sufficient logical reason to do so. The choices for me are Trump, or stay home. I am still leaning toward the stay home camp.

"CHAAAAAAANNNNNNGE" and crap such as that isn't a logical argument, just so's y'all know. Isn't that actually how we got Obama?
 

NoMoRedJ

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But, you've been advocating for moar big government in the form of import tariffs. How do you square that?

I have never advocated for more, or for big government, at any time. Just because you say it doesnt make it so.
 

NoMoRedJ

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I'm one of the millions of undecided voters who will decide this election. There's no way in Hell Hitlery ever gets my vote, and I really really want to vote for Trump, but neither he nor anyone else has given me anything close to sufficient logical reason to do so. The choices for me are Trump, or stay home. I am still leaning toward the stay home camp.

"CHAAAAAAANNNNNNGE" and crap such as that isn't a logical argument, just so's y'all know. Isn't that actually how we got Obama?

I never believed in his change.

Trump as an agent of change can hardly be compared to Onumnuts change in any way.

Go ahead and stay home. Thats essentially a vote for Hillary.
 

Doomsday

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I have never advocated for more, or for big government, at any time. Just because you say it doesnt make it so.
You have stated you want import tariffs, want the government to fight "greed," and so on. You support Trump, a man whose every proposal is moar big government. That's moar big government.

That's really the problem today - most everyone wants moar big government, they just want that big government to address their own pet issues. Once you face that and admit it, you can be on the road to recovery from wanting that Nanny.
 

Doomsday

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I never believed in his change.

Trump as an agent of change can hardly be compared to Onumnuts change in any way.
Other than the mindlessness of the imbeciles who don't know the first fucking thing about the candidate's proposals, and yet trumpet him anyway. It's exactly like the Obamabots were. Mindless moronic imbeciles.
Go ahead and stay home. Thats essentially a vote for Hillary.
It's not a vote at all. Here again we see another argument totally lacking any substance, just like your failing candidate.
 

NoMoRedJ

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You have stated you want import tariffs, want the government to fight "greed," and so on. You support Trump, a man whose every proposal is moar big government. That's moar big government.

That's really the problem today - most everyone wants moar big government, they just want that big government to address their own pet issues. Once you face that and admit it, you can be on the road to recovery from wanting that Nanny.

Fair and equitable trade is not a mantra for moar big government, no matter how may times you post that it is.

Ive already posted in this thread that a REAL environment of REAL free trade and REAL competition is whats best for consumers and to combat greed. My view is different than yours which in reality just parrots the establishment status quo. Iam not for the status quo as you appear to be.
 

Dodger12

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The choices for me are Trump, or stay home. I am still leaning toward the stay home camp.

Call it what you want Dooms but staying at home is, in fact, a vote for Hilary. Millions of Republicans stayed home the last election and the result was Obama getting re-elected.
 
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So why is that guys like this cant get elected? Almost every person I ever talk to that doesnt vote Democrap values these things.

Most tea party people would go for that stuff. But the Establishment held out and that fizzled once Glenn Beck was out at Fox. There was no real push for the tea party on a national level. The annoying Sarah Palin screeching isnt going to be enough to keep any momentum going.

No 3rd party candidate is going to have a prayer at getting elected. They say good stuff, but have no chance. At least with trump he says a lot of the right stuff and he has a chance to be president.
They only "don't have a prayer" because people like you are too short-sighted to believe that a 3rd party can win. The two-party system is so ingrained in your day-to-day life that people think they only have a choice between those two parties. It's like a consumer imposed duopoly.

McDonald's and Taco Bell are probably two of the most popular restaurant franchises. They're both shit, but for some reason, consumers flock to them even though there are better and healthier options out there for you. I've come to accept that the general population is made up of imbeciles.
 
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Call it what you want Dooms but staying at home is, in fact, a vote for Hilary. Millions of Republicans stayed home the last election and the result was Obama getting re-elected.
I wish the millions of voters who stayed home were educated enough to know there are other options out there. Really, I think if a 3rd party candidate were able to get say 20% of the vote, it would be a sea change in the political climate as we know it. People might then start to take notice, and realize that we have the power to change the way this country is run.
 
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http://fortune.com/2016/07/07/small-business-libertarian/

The Small-Business Appeal of the Libertarian Party

by Jeremy Quittner

An emerging third party could cause trouble for both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.

Gary Johnson won only 1% of the vote when he ran as the Libertarian candidate for president in 2012. And while most people still haven’t heard of him, the former New Mexico governor is slowly gaining traction in this chaotic election season, particularly among business owners.

With a strong pro-business message, Johnson could eventually could emerge as the third–party candidate who grabs votes from either former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton or real–estate magnate Donald Trump, the respective presumptive Democratic and Republican candidates, political analysts say.

He and his vice presidential running mate Bill Weld, the former governor of Massachusetts, are likely to appeal particularly to Republicans who are uncomfortable with the populist campaign Trump has mounted. Not only are Johnson and Weld social liberals and fiscal conservatives, they espouse views traditionally associated with moderate Republican candidates on the economy, such as favoring international trade agreements and reducing the national debt.

As such, they also have an appeal to entrepreneurs who want to voice a protest vote against Trump, whose platform currently includes deportation of undocumented immigrants and banning of Muslim immigrants, punishing companies that invest in operations overseas, and a trade war with countries such as China and Mexico.

“It is the first time the Libertarian ticket will have more government experience than the Republican ticket, and that is astonishing,” says Stan Veuger, a resident scholar and economist at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank in Washington, D.C.

Johnson was most recently the chief executive of a company called Cannabis Sativa, which produces pot-based oils for treatment of health issues. Weld had high favorability ratings from state businesses during his two terms as governor of Massachusetts in the 1990s, for cutting taxes and pushing welfare recipients into work programs, among other things.

Such experience matters to Clint Greenleaf, co-founder and chief executive of HomePlate Peanut Butter, a four-employee company based in Austin, Texas. Greenleaf, a serial entrepreneur, describes himself as a fiscal conservative who has tended to vote Republican over the years, but who has recently become a Libertarian.

This year, however, he finds himself disappointed with the negative tone of the presidential campaign, as well as the prospect of voting for either Clinton or Trump. Specifically, Greenleaf disapproves of Clinton’s big government philosophy and the controversies swirling around her, including using a private computer server for federal emails. But he also dislikes the grandiosity and wavering inconsistencies of Trump, on everything from immigration to taxes.

For Greenleaf, the policies put forth by Johnson and Weld, plus their collective experience governing their home states, are likely to win his vote.

“I think the biggest thing is their ability to work across the aisle,” he says. “They were both Republican governors in blue states.”

Johnson and Weld are long-shots to gain the White House, political analysts say. Yet they could attract enough voters to make things difficult for either Trump or Clinton, where according to at least one recent poll, the Democrat and Republican tie at 35%, with Johnson garnering 13% of the vote.

They’ve staked out positions that business owners tend to favor. Johnson, the former governor of a state that bordered Mexico, a U.S. trading partner that Trump regularly maligns, favors a more open immigration policy that would allow undocumented immigrants to get work visas to fill jobs that U.S. workers don’t want.

He would reduce the federal debt and deficit by cutting federal spending, nearly in half. On taxes, always a top concern for entrepreneurs, Johnson would abolish the Internal Revenue Service, and ultimately replace the progressive income tax with a “fair tax,” or a tax on consumption. That would eliminate the corporate tax, which in turn could create millions of new jobs, Johnson says.

While it’s hard to know if the consumption tax could ever get mainstream traction, Johnson and Weld appeal to entrepreneurs because they seem to be a saner alternative to Trump, says Philip Wallach, a senior fellow in governance studies at Brookings Institution, a centrist think tank.

“Part of this is just Trump being such a wild card, which might potentially be off-putting to many small business owners who worry about economic uncertainty and instability threatening their businesses,” Wallach says.

That certainly rings true for Jeff Koenig, owner of the business consulting firm Open Four Business, in Manhattan, Kansas. A registered Republican who says he has also voted for centrist Democrats on occasion, he respects Trump’s business acumen, but he says he has no idea what Trump stands for politically. And that troubles him. He also won’t vote for Clinton, whom he says he views as a “corrupt” career politician.

Like Greenleaf, he’s leaning toward Johnson and Weld.

“I don’t entirely agree with the foundation of Libertarianism, which is very anti-government, “ Koenig says. “By voting for the Libertarian party [this year], I would be voting for more common sense level-headedness.”
 

NoMoRedJ

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They only "don't have a prayer" because people like you are too short-sighted to believe that a 3rd party can win. The two-party system is so ingrained in your day-to-day life that people think they only have a choice between those two parties. It's like a consumer imposed duopoly.

Once again you are dead wrong. I voted for Ross Perot despite the fact that every day leading up to that election people told me a Perot vote was just a vote for Clinton. Maybe it was, but I voted and that was my only way to express my displeasure with the other 2 bums in the race. I wasnt voting for Slick Willy and I couldnt in good conscience vote for daddy Bush when a better alternative was there to vote for.

Please show me an example of a 3rd party candidate since that time when Perot ran who has had any shot at doing anything. Just one. All you have to do is come up with one.
 

NoMoRedJ

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I wish the millions of voters who stayed home were educated enough to know there are other options out there. Really, I think if a 3rd party candidate were able to get say 20% of the vote, it would be a sea change in the political climate as we know it. People might then start to take notice, and realize that we have the power to change the way this country is run.

It didnt happen when Ross Perot ran, so why would people notice now?
 

NoMoRedJ

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“By voting for the Libertarian party [this year], I would be voting for more common sense level-headedness.”

While that may be true, does any level headed person think voting that way will accomplish anything except help Hillary win?
 
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