dbair1967

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Hmm. What exactly has Norv done as an HC besides sink 3 different franchises that gives you such confidence in him? 1993 was great but he's not the same coach even as an OC anymore.

Not sure what you are referring to 1993 for, he wasn't a HC

The Redskins stunk when he got there in 1994, he did win a division there. Their only one recently until last yr I believe.

The Raiders were more dysfunctional than we are.

The Chargers he had some success with, and got them pretty close the Super Bowl.

I don't think Norv is a good HC, I just don't think he's as bad as some of you make him out to be. I certainly do believe he is better than Garrett, and he would definitely improve our offense if he was given the OC job.
 

junk

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Norv is pretty average/below average as a HC and pretty average as an OC.

I'd rather bring in someone completely new without any ties to Garrett, Turner, etc.

It'll never happen, but that would be my preference.
 

Jon88

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The only hope we have is that a lot of people stop attending games and buying merchandise. Why pay at least $200 a ticket plus everything else to see them play? They aren't much fun to watch at all. They're actually frustrating to watch. And why would you want to wear something with "Dallas Cowboys" on it these days? There's not a good reason.
 
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His career peak was obviously as OC here in Dallas.

That Chargers team went 13-3 and fired Marty because they wanted sustained post season success. That didn't occur with Norv (on a team that was stacked for at least 3 straight seasons) so I wouldn't really call his time in SD "successful". He just looks good to you because our little Ginger took a 13-3 team and drove them straight to the ground quickly. Norv slow-fucked his team. Same results though, so I'm not sure one is much better than the other in the grand scheme of things.
 

dbair1967

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"Definitely"? ? ? You just can't pull the pin on that and walk away. Give some evidence or logic or something to qualify "definitely".

Play callers/coordinators on scale of 1-10

Callahan- 3
Garrett- 4
Turner- 8

Turner is a great game planner and play caller. He's also an outstanding QB coach.
 

dbair1967

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His career peak was obviously as OC here in Dallas.

That Chargers team went 13-3 and fired Marty because they wanted sustained post season success. That didn't occur with Norv (on a team that was stacked for at least 3 straight seasons) so I wouldn't really call his time in SD "successful"..

So the fact that he had some post season success where Marty Schottenheimer had none is to be ignored?
 
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"Definitely"? ? ? You just can't pull the pin on that and walk away. Give some evidence or logic or something to qualify "definitely".
Do you know who you're talking to? Dbair doesn't give evidence or logic. He talks in absolutes without backing anything up and just expects people to fall in line. If you don't see what he sees so clearly, that's on you.
 
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Play callers/coordinators on scale of 1-10

Callahan- 3
Garrett- 4
Turner- 8

Turner is a great game planner and play caller. He's also an outstanding QB coach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Callahan_(American_football)

Under Callahan's guidance, the Raiders led the NFL in passing for the first time in team history and led the league in total offense for just the second time in team history.During his tenure as not only head coach but also offensive coordinator for the Raiders, the Raider offense led the league in rushing in 2000 and led the league in passing in 2002. In 2002, the Raiders became the first team to win games in the same season while rushing at least 60 times (against Kansas City in a 24–0 win) and passing at least 60 times (against Pittsburgh in a 30–17 win). The Raider offense also set many franchise records during this period, including fewest sacks allowed (28) in 2000, a mark that was broken the following year (27).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norv_Turner

I am convinced that the scheme is the issue. Once the novelty of the scheme becomes legitimately documented and on tape for study, the scheme becomes easier to defend unless the team runs the ball a great deal. Emmitt allowed Norvs scheme to succeed without becoming desperate passing like Jason's is right now. If Norv were a run first type coach, then I would be all for this scheme, but if you look at what happened to with Washington, Oakland, and eventually San Diego, the longer he was with the team, the worse things became. Mike McCoy commented that Philip Rivers felt like nothing could change in the offense; no adjustments could be made. But look at this and compare to what Jaosn has had over the years.

San Diego never made the Super Bowl under Turner despite having what was perceived as one of the league's most talented rosters.[4] Turner believed the Chargers were the most talented team in the AFC West in his first three seasons, but not in his final three when the team lost talented players.[19] He inherited a team with 11 Pro Bowl players in 2006, but had no players voted to the NFL's All-Star game in 2012.

Norv had the Jimmy Johnson Cowboys who didn't allow stupid playcalling and certainly would not allow a RB who could gash a defense, like Emmitt or Murray against the Packers, to sit idly while the OC scheme philosophy dictated constant passing over smart running/clock management.

Callahan's status as an OC is quite impressive having led the league with essentially the same players in passing one year and running another. He stated many times this year that this was Jason's scheme, not his. The plays stink. The WRs were rarely open on their primary routes and no one was fooled by 5 wide.

If Callahan were calling a WCO, the team would be in the Super Bowl and Murray would have 2000 yards rushing. His zone blocking, red zone, and run game improvement were evident, but he was limited by Jason's philosophy and play design.
 

ThoughtExperiment

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Right on, Omega.

It's amazing, the DFW radio guys I hear are in full support of ditching Callahan. And why? I mean, the offense was about like it has been, only it was better in the red zone this year.

But when it comes to the head coach, they say it's Jerry's fault. And if anything, they point out that the offense wasn't the problem. Somehow that doesn't apply to the offensive coordinator, though.

Amazing how they protect that guy. I've never seen anything like it.
 

dbair1967

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Well nothing is going to be dramatically different under Jones until he is not involved, but getting a real OC to replace Callahan and reign in Romo on all his pass happy audibles would be a plus.

Turner has always believed in balanced offenses when possible and is a great play caller.
 
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LOL

Pass happy audibles. Romo's not changing any plays, he's making reads and checking to the second of the two calls. They checks are dictated by the system.
 
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Member when I asked you when the last time you saw a complete position shift audible and not just a "kill, kill, kill audible"? Member when you didn't have an answer for that? You don't member that?
 
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