Who Here is Not Entirely Sold on Dak Prescott?

[Scot]

I’m not sure why the link opens up a game pass page instead of the article

When I use the link in a browser it opens up the correct page

When I click on the one I posted in the thread it opens up the game pass site

Not sure what is going on there so I posted a screen grab from the article just in case

Let me know what happens when you guys click on the link

 

[dbair1967]

You're working your way to my favorites list. I liked your whole post but this part is making me think you're smarter than most of the buys on this board, especially dbair.

Yawn

If Osama Bin Laden rose from the grave and said he thought Prescott sucked, you'd be first line proclaiming him a great humanitarian and respected religious leader everyone should admire.

 

[dbair1967]

It's comments like these that make you look foolish. Romo, for all his faults, made people a lot of money: Garrett, Dez, Laurent Robinson, Miles Austin, Jerry Jones, among others. He gave Jessie Holley his 15 minutes of fame. You can even argue Cole Beasley. Lead footed Witten is going to the HoF (first ballot) and he may be the slowest TE in Dallas history.

And directly to your point, I like how you qualify your point with "early" in his career. By the time Dak took over, Bryant was 28 years old. He was in his prime. The difference is that one QB was accurate enough to take advantage of what Bryant did well and the other couldn't hit the side of a barn.

Good grief. Dez was an all world talent, he didn't need Romo to be a successful WR. Any decent QB would have been able to given him plenty of opportunities. Miles Austin was a free agent like Romo, but the guy had physical talent and worked hard. If he had been elsewhere with a decent QB. he'd have posted good numbers. Jesse Holley made one fucking play here dude, the league is littered with guys who made one freaking play in their career. And just fyi dude, Jason Witten was not slow coming out of college or the first half of his career here.

As for the 2nd part of your ridiculous take (and your new buttboy), Prescott doesn't seem to have a problem throwing to Amari Cooper, Michael Gallup, Randall Cobb and when he was here, Cole Beasley. The difference is those guys applied themselves and can run routes, get open consistently. They can make great catches when they need to (Cooper has a ton of great grabs since he was here, some of them almost mind boggling good), but they GET OPEN and then in addition, also have great run after catch skills. None of them gets butthurt and runs to the sideline creating a circus after every series either.

Is Romo a better pure passer than Prescott, no doubt he is. But Prescott is a really good player in his own right and a team could win with him if it's got the right coaching. Hell we've been having "winning" records with him with the worst damn HC and staff in the league for his 4 years here.

 

[dbair1967]

If I remember correctly didn’t Dak lead the entire league in tight window throws in 2017?

Dak Prescott, Matthew Stafford among top 10 tight-window QBs

Which quarterbacks excel at throwing the ball into tight windows? Dak Prescott's placement in Matt Harmon's top 10 might surprise you -- along with the rest of the list.

www.nfl.com

You just made Dodgers shit list

 

[Scot]

You just made Dodgers shit list

Be it as it may

I just provided facts

I remember hearing that stat and thinking to myself that seemed.... interesting

So I looked it up and there ya have it

 

[spiderfan_MJ]

I don't know why that dolt dbair gave you a thumbs down....you're growing up right in front of our eyes.

I knew before that Garrett and the Jones' sucked. What I didn't realize what that

1.) Dak isn't nearly as good as first thought

2.) That the Jones' and Garrett are losers off the field as well as on it.

Let me explain:

Dez is arguably the greatest WR in the history of the Cowboys and there should be no argument that he isn't ONE of the best WRs in the history of the Cowboys.

If you are going to move on from Dez, ya cut him the day free agency starts and wish him well and thank him for what he has done. YOU DO NOT sit on his rights knowing you are going to cut him but putting him in a situation where by the time you do cut him people have either signed or drafted other WRs. YOU DO NOT actively talk about he sucks both publicly and privately. YOU DO NOT actively talk about how you don't need a #1 WR and then make a last minute trade for Amari Cooper because you actually do need a #1 WR. YOU DO NOT enable snake behavior by in the locker room (Snake Lee and Travis Frederick talking bad about Dez behind his back).

It is one thing to have bad coaching, bad management, and even bad play on the field. It is another thing to be low. What the Cowboys did to Dez was low.

 

[spiderfan_MJ]

And directly to your point, I like how you qualify your point with "early" in his career. By the time Dak took over, Bryant was 28 years old. He was in his prime. The difference is that one QB was accurate enough to take advantage of what Bryant did well and the other couldn't hit the side of a barn.

Having chemistry between your QB and WRs is important. That should be obvious.

 

[spiderfan_MJ]

Good grief. Dez was an all world talent, he didn't need Romo to be a successful WR. Any decent QB would have been able to given him plenty of opportunities.

As for the 2nd part of your ridiculous take (and your new buttboy), Prescott doesn't seem to have a problem throwing to Amari Cooper, Michael Gallup, Randall Cobb and when he was here, Cole Beasley. The difference is those guys applied themselves and can run routes, get open consistently. They can make great catches when they need to (Cooper has a ton of great grabs since he was here, some of them almost mind boggling good), but they GET OPEN and then in addition, also have great run after catch skills. None of them gets butthurt and runs to the sideline creating a circus after every series either.

Is Romo a better pure passer than Prescott, no doubt he is. But Prescott is a really good player in his own right and a team could win with him if it's got the right coaching. Hell we've been having "winning" records with him with the worst damn HC and staff in the league for his 4 years here.

1.) Dez needed someone to get him the ball, which Dak didn't do. Thus undermining your point about Dak being a talented QB.

2.) I give Kellen Moore credit for coming up with a scheme that makes it so that Dak doesn't regularly have to throw into contested coverage. Ya ever notice how Cooper or Cobb or Gallup are WIDE open and then Dak hits them in stride thus the YAC thus Dak's obese passing stats. As I've stated before ANYTIME that Dak doesn't have a favorable probability of completing a pass, the play fails. Whether that be because Dak blatantly misses or because he can't fit the ball into the tight window.

3.) Dak can win games, but to do that the team needs to be run heavy offense with Dak doing RPOs and running the ball himself like he did in college. If the Cowboys hire Greg Roman (the architect of the Ravens offense) or Dan Mullen (the guy who coached Dak at Miss. St) I think the Cowboys would be in great shape. But the idea that the Cowboys are gonna win with Dak being the focal point of the offense passing 40 times a game is a joke.

 

[Dodger12]

i may be nitpicking at spiderfan's posts, whicih i mostly agree w/

but,
in his prime, dez would still be effective w/ dak. dez never needed a tight window. he was always more athletic and stronger than the DB's he went up against until injuries and age caught up w/ him

What age? Dez was 28 years old. The issue was Dak was a dink and dunk passer earlier in his career and Dez couldn't stay focussed waiting for Dak to throw downfield. I mean, even Cooper disappears with Dak. Your #1 WR should never be taken out of a game. I don't know anyone that shut down Irvin.

 

[Dodger12]

If I remember correctly didn’t Dak lead the entire league in tight window throws in 2017?

Dak Prescott, Matthew Stafford among top 10 tight-window QBs

Which quarterbacks excel at throwing the ball into tight windows? Dak Prescott's placement in Matt Harmon's top 10 might surprise you -- along with the rest of the list.

www.nfl.com

Yep. And Dez was the #2 WR for tight window throws, if I remember correctly.

 

[Dodger12]

Yawn

If Osama Bin Laden rose from the grave and said he thought Prescott sucked, you'd be first line proclaiming him a great humanitarian and respected religious leader everyone should admire.

I don't know that I'd think he was a great humanitarian but I would think he was a football savant. Dak needs to consistently carry this team for us to have a shot at any real post season success. Unfortunately, that won't happen. Less Dak and more Zeke is our only formula for success but you can't ride that to the SB.

 

[Dodger12]

You just made Dodgers shit list

Be it as it may

I just provided facts

I remember hearing that stat and thinking to myself that seemed.... interesting

So I looked it up and there ya have it

Listen dickheads, this isn't CZ so don't post meaningless stats in a vacuum. So you just post the facts, is that right Scott? Just click on the links provided in the article you posted and you'll see Daz is #3 in tight window WR's (I said #2 earlier but I was incorrect). What do those stats tell you?

Stefon Diggs, Marvin Jones among top 10 tight-window receivers

Is there anyone better than Vikings WR Stefon Diggs at coming down with tight-window throws? Matt Harmon uses Next Gen Stats to rank the 10 best tight-window receivers in the NFL.

www.nfl.com

 

[Scot]

Listen dickheads, this isn't CZ so don't post meaningless stats in a vacuum. So you just post the facts, is that right Scott? Just click on the links provided in the article you posted and you'll see Dak is #3 in tight window WR's (I said #2 earlier but I was incorrect). What do those stats tell you?

Stefon Diggs, Marvin Jones among top 10 tight-window receivers

Is there anyone better than Vikings WR Stefon Diggs at coming down with tight-window throws? Matt Harmon uses Next Gen Stats to rank the 10 best tight-window receivers in the NFL.

www.nfl.com

It goes to the game pass website and not the article

Same thing mine was doing when I posted it

No idea why

 

[Scot]

Listen dickheads, this isn't CZ so don't post meaningless stats in a vacuum. So you just post the facts, is that right Scott? Just click on the links provided in the article you posted and you'll see Dak is #3 in tight window WR's (I said #2 earlier but I was incorrect). What do those stats tell you?

Stefon Diggs, Marvin Jones among top 10 tight-window receivers

Is there anyone better than Vikings WR Stefon Diggs at coming down with tight-window throws? Matt Harmon uses Next Gen Stats to rank the 10 best tight-window receivers in the NFL.

www.nfl.com

Not sure why you are getting your panties in a bunch

I posted an article that listed Dak as the top tight window passer in the league in 2017

I posted the link to the article

When I tried the article it went straight to the game pass website for some reason. I’m not sure why

So I took a screen shot of the part of the article that lists Dak as the top right window passer for that season

I’m not sure what your problem with that is other than you don’t agree with the stats

I ain’t makin this shit up, I’m just quoting/posting the link to the article

Here is the articles contents that talk about the criteria that they used for the article

Dak Prescott, Matthew Stafford among top 10 tight-window QBs

Which quarterbacks excel at throwing the ball into tight windows? Dak Prescott's placement in Matt Harmon's top 10 might surprise you -- along with the rest of the list.

www.nfl.com

The following is copied directly from the article


“Dak Prescott, Matthew Stafford among top 10 tight-window QBs

Here's why Dak Prescott was still pretty good in 2017


The quarterback position sits on a well-deserved pedestal as the most critical position in sports. Having a franchise quarterback is the ultimate shortcut for teams to vault into the ranks of Super Bowl contenders. The "haves" of the league sit pretty with the hope they can compete for the playoffs on an annual basis, while the "have-nots" are forced to do whatever possible to give chaseto the quarterback Holy Grail.

For years, we've heard scouting terms tossed around when discussing the worth of NFL signal-callers, but new advanced analytics are now able to quantify the concepts that have just been anecdotally assessed in the past. With the help of Next Gen Stats data brought to us by chips in every player's shoulder pads, we can now measure the best tight-window passers in the NFL. Using a composite score of several tight-window passing stats, we'll examine the top 10 players at the position when making such throws.
Here are the qualifiers for the rankings:
» Next Gen Stats defines a "tight-window throw" as a throw where the intended receiver had less than a yard of separation from the defender.
» The average quarterback threw 18.6 percent of his passes into a tight window over the last two seasons.
» Only quarterbacks with over 200 pass attempts and seven-plus games played in 2017 qualified for the list (35 total players).
» The ranking was established by the quarterbacks among the 35 qualifiers who had the best rankings in the following three categories:
-- Completion rate on tight-window throws.
-- Passer rating on tight-window throws.
-- Adjusted yards per attempt on tight-window throws.
Adjusted yards per attempt is an efficiency metric that takes the traditional yards-per-attempt model a step further by rewarding the passer for touchdowns and heavily penalizing for interceptions. It also correlates with wins on the team level.
The rankings were added together to create the composite score -- for example, a player who ranked second in completion rate, fifth in passer rating and first in adjusted yards per attempt would have a composite score of 8 -- with a lower score indicating better performance. It's impossible for any stat to completely negate the influence of a quarterback's surrounding cast and measure his pure ability, but using a composite score helped alleviate those issues to a manageable degree.

1

Dak Prescott

QB
Cowboys



Completion pct.: 45.8 (first). Passer rating: 82.1 (first). Adjusted YPA: 6.23 (fourth).

Score: 6.

The Cowboys floundered to a 9-7 record and missed the playoffs one year after looking like a franchise on the brink of sustained greatness. A pair of rookies were the catalyst to Dallas' 13-3 run in 2016. While one of those players (running back Ezekiel Elliott) lost six games to suspension, the other (Prescott) took a step back on the field after a marvelously efficient inaugural NFL campaign. However, Prescott's placement at the top of these rankings should help the Cowboys faithful retain some optimism. He was hyper-accurate when throwing into tight windows in 2017, leading qualifying passers in completion percentage and passer rating. Prescott actually improved his completion rate from his rookie year (42.7 percent) on a similar number of attempts (90 to 96).”

 

[Scot]

Listen dickheads, this isn't CZ so don't post meaningless stats in a vacuum. So you just post the facts, is that right Scott? Just click on the links provided in the article you posted and you'll see Dak is #3 in tight window WR's (I said #2 earlier but I was incorrect). What do those stats tell you?

Stefon Diggs, Marvin Jones among top 10 tight-window receivers

Is there anyone better than Vikings WR Stefon Diggs at coming down with tight-window throws? Matt Harmon uses Next Gen Stats to rank the 10 best tight-window receivers in the NFL.

www.nfl.com

In the article I posted if you click on the link for QB it lists DAK as #1 not #3

If you click on the link for Tight-window WR it lists DEZ as #3

So those stats tell me that you are not reading them correctly

 

[dbair1967]

Having chemistry between your QB and WRs is important. That should be obvious.

Having someone that's not a 4th rd rookie QB throwing him the ball might have mattered too don't you think?

 

[dbair1967]

What age? Dez was 28 years old. The issue was Dak was a dink and dunk passer earlier in his career and Dez couldn't stay focused waiting for Dak to throw downfield. I mean, even Cooper disappears with Dak. Your #1 WR should never be taken out of a game. I don't know anyone that shut down Irvin.

Dez might have been 28 yrs old age wise, but his body was more like 35yrs old. He was a shell of his former self physically in 16 and 17 (esp 17).

Cole Beasley's two best seasons were with Prescott throwing him the ball, and one of those was his rookie year. Cooper and Gallup are both putting up outstanding numbers. In fact Gallup has better numbers this year than Dez did in 16 or 17 (except for tds) and he's the #2 guy in this passing game and even missed 2 games.

What's the big differences? Cooper, Beasley and even Gallup are all better route runners than Dez was. You also have Prescott in his 4th yr now vs being a 4th rd draft pick rookie playing 2+ years before anyone expected when he was drafted.

As far as Irvin goes, you are comparing apples and oranges. Irvin was legitimately one of the GOAT. None of these others guys is in that category, or even really close IMO. As far as your comment about nobody shutting him down though, might want to go back and look at some of the games Bobby Taylor had against him, including our playoff win in 1995 when Irvin caught 1 pass.

 

[icup]

What age? Dez was 28 years old. The issue was Dak was a dink and dunk passer earlier in his career and Dez couldn't stay focussed waiting for Dak to throw downfield. I mean, even Cooper disappears with Dak. Your #1 WR should never be taken out of a game. I don't know anyone that shut down Irvin.

dez's body gave out thats why hes still out of the league

dez was hurt during dak's rookie yr but still caught 8 TDs

dez had a slow start to his career but he went off in 2012-2014. injured in 2015. still injured in 2016-17. then out of the league.

dez always relied on his athleticism, and i dont think he needs a super accurate tight window at all.. his stats went down because injuries caught up to him. nothing to do w/ dak.






btw, cooper disappears w/ dak, yes.... but did dak play for the raiders too ? (hint: cooper kinda just does that)

 

[Dodger12]

Not sure why you are getting your panties in a bunch

I posted an article that listed Dak as the top tight window passer in the league in 2017

Because you're posting that link to "prove" Dak was a top notch QB and Dez was washed up, as opposed to Dak having any culpability in Dez's declining stats. In that same article you posted, there's a link to the best tight window WR's and Dez is #3. You can't have it both ways. You use that article to discredit Dez but that same website credits Dez with being the #3 tight window WR.

Based on that article, would you agree that Dez was one of the best WR's because he was #3 on the list? Of course not. No more than I think Prescott is the most accurate QB in the NFL because he's #1 in tight window throws. It's a meaningless "stat" that has way too many variables. And I do find it funny how all the Dak homers have to dig up all these stats to disprove what they see with their own eyes.

 

[Dodger12]

Dez might have been 28 yrs old age wise, but his body was more like 35yrs old. He was a shell of his former self physically in 16 and 17 (esp 17).

He fractured his foot in 2015 and his knee in 2016. Both injuries occurred early the season and he could never get fully healthy. That's not age or wear and tear.

Cole Beasley's two best seasons were with Prescott throwing him the ball, and one of those was his rookie year. Cooper and Gallup are both putting up outstanding numbers. In fact Gallup has better numbers this year than Dez did in 16 or 17 (except for tds) and he's the #2 guy in this passing game and even missed 2 games.

Of course Beasley would have his best season under Prescott. Prescott was a dink and dunk passer and the slot receiver would be the biggest beneficiary of his style of play.

And are you really comparing Gallup's number to Dez's numbers in 2016 when Dez was injured as some sort of proof to validate your point?

dbair: Hey guys.....Dak's worse numbers still blew away Brady's numbers in 2008!!!
Dodger: Uh, Brady was injured in 2008 and lost for the season.......
dbair: Yeah, but Dez still had better stats even in his worst year!!!

And Dak sucked in 2017.

The problem with these useless Prescott stats is that it seems like I'm defending Dez Bryant. I'm not. He was a headcase and we couldn't have him ranting and raving with a young QB. But these tight window stats are flawed unless you believe Dez was the 3rd best WR or tight window WR based on the same criteria.