opponents will test cowboys defense in the run game

[Iamtdg]

So, if they are passing just as much now as they were 30 years ago, why is this just now some kind of new point and consideration for teams and their defenses? You would think they would have it figured out by now.

 

[dbair1967]

30 years ago the number of passing plays per game is the same as it is now.

and that has absolutely nothing to do with the % of play calls run v pass

do you understand that 57 > 43?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

You guys have lost the plot.

 

[2233boys]

Yeah I'm confused what the hell is dbair arguing? The stats he showed that the league has been passing more than running since 1980.

 

[dbair1967]

Yeah I'm confused .

not surprising

 

[boozeman]

Yeah I'm confused what the hell is dbair arguing? The stats he showed that the league has been passing more than running since 1980.

And that's not the point I was arguing at least. By and large, the league has been passing more due to relaxed rules since the late 1970s that protect WRs. That doesn't mean teams can get away with throwing the ball all the time and winning consistently. Efficiency is what matters. If you don't run the ball well and keep a perspective balance, you are going to be a loser.

 

[2233boys]

It isn't much more of a passing league now than it was in 1980. None of these stats nor this argument have anything to do with Dallas's ability or inability to stop the run this year. The fact is that teams don't throw the ball much more today than they did 30 years ago. Dallas is small upfront plus they face a ton of teams this year who where in the top 20 in terms of rushing production last year. Until we see how we hold up vs the run it really doesn't matter very much that the league as a whole on average throws the ball 10%-13% more than they run it. If we can't stop the run they are going to run it down our throats.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

I do think it's fair to say, though, that if you were going to be very good defending either the run or the pass these days, you'd choose the pass every time. No one argues that, do they?

Even if we have an undersized front that could be run on, how many teams even try to consistently pound the ball anymore? Hardly any. It's just not how teams are wired.

 

[boozeman]

I do think it's fair to say, though, that if you were going to be very good defending either the run or the pass these days, you'd choose the pass every time. No one argues that, do they?

Even if we have an undersized front that could be run on, how many teams even try to consistently pound the ball anymore? Hardly any. It's just not how teams are wired.

Teams will go with what works. If they find early success running the ball, they'll keep doing it.

Hell, look at Buffalo this past year. The Patriots and 49ers brutalized them running the football.

 

[dbair1967]

It isn't much more of a passing league now than it was in 1980.

Huh? In 1980 it was 50/50 run pass. So on 1000 plays, about 500 each were run and pass. Today on those same 1000 plays, 570 are passes and 430 are runs. Its a pretty significant difference now.

None of these stats nor this argument have anything to do with Dallas's ability or inability to stop the run this year.

That part I would agree with. Although my point originally was because its more of a throwing league today with far more 3 WR, 4 WR and sometimes even empty backfield sets, that being smaller up front isn't as big a deal because those formations dictate being able to cover more of the field quickly. Being able to get up field and rush the passer is more crucial now. Most teams in the league now don't line up with overpowering OL's that feature man to man blocking (ie, like our teams in the early 90's or teams of the past like the Giants, Redskins, Bears etc etc). The run game has changed. The more successful run teams today employ more zone blocking with more finesse blocking schemes. Back in the 80's and even early 90's teams rarely employed multiple WR sets. Some even kept a FB on the field with a RB for every down. That rarely happens now.

The fact is that teams don't throw the ball much more today than they did 30 years ago.

Not true. The percentages are very different now.

Dallas is small upfront plus they face a ton of teams this year who where in the top 20 in terms of rushing production last year.

Small doesn't mean cant play. We were probably the smallest defense in the league from 1991-1995, yet our defense was very good then. We didn't get pulverized by more physical teams then. Neither did Tampa Bay when Kiffin was there. The Colts went to two super bowls. Now if these guys cant play, they'll get mauled. But the same thing happens to a bigger defense that "cant play"

Until we see how we hold up vs the run it really doesn't matter very much that the league as a whole on average throws the ball 10%-13% more than they run it. If we can't stop the run they are going to run it down our throats.

I guess we'll see. Obviously opposing offensive coordinators will game plan for what they perceive is a weakness, but most teams in this league don't do what the Redskins did to us in the final game of last season either. That had more to do with an injury decimated defense than anything else (on top of their own QB being far less than 100%)

Other factors will also contribute. Things like getting and playing with a lead (something we've rarely done lately) and not turning the ball over as much would help immensely. So would having quality depth behind the 4 starters and being able to rotate 7 or 8 guys, thus keeping the better guys healthy and fresh for the key parts of games.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

Buffalo? Really? They suck so bad they're not even relevant.

I seriously doubt stopping the run is going to be what holds us back this year. Not sold that teams are geared to run the ball a lot anymore, though Coughlin is one that will. Shanahan will, but that zone stuff isn't predicated on overpowering teams anyway.

Now as someone who hates this new flag football type league, I'd welcome a return to more power running. But the vast majority of offenses aren't even built to do that anymore. Maybe if (if Goodell doesn't keep changing the rules) too many defenses got too small and pass-oriented, offenses will adjust and run more. But I don't think we're to that point.

One little wrinkle to all this is the read option stuff. That generated a lot of long runs last year where before it didn't even exist. But those don't come from getting steamrolled up front because you're too small.

 

[boozeman]

Buffalo? Really? They suck so bad they're not even relevant.

Buffalo's line is not exactly crappy.

But what they did was the same thing we are preaching this year...attack the QB, get up field. I recall Wannstedt talking about it repeatedly.

Again the point is, if we don't show we can hold up against the run, teams will attack us that way.

 

[dbair1967]

Buffalo's line is not exactly crappy.

But what they did was the same thing we are preaching this year...attack the QB, get up field. I recall Wannstedt talking about it repeatedly.

Again the point is, if we don't show we can hold up against the run, teams will attack us that way.

Yeah Wannstedt didn't exactly have his 1992 Cowboy defense out there either. Nor did he have that HOF trio on offense which tended to get on top of people early and could control games with leads late.

 

[boozeman]

Yeah Wannstedt didn't exactly have his 1992 Cowboy defense out there either. Nor did he have that HOF trio on offense which tended to get on top of people early and could control games with leads late.

Say that reminds me, how did we control games late? Oh yeah.

 

[dbair1967]

Say that reminds me, how did we control games late? Oh yeah.

we didn't...got behind early a lot...turned the ball over a lot...

couldn't run the ball

those things need to change

 

[boozeman]

we didn't...got behind early a lot...turned the ball over a lot...

couldn't run the ball

those things need to change

I was talking about back then.

 

[2233boys]

1980 to this past season 7% more passing now then than now. The % aren't all that different now than they were 30 years ago when the threw it 52% of the time. (5% more passing) The ave % of passing over the last 32 years since 1980 haven't increased dramatically like your indicating.

 

[dbair1967]

1980 to this past season 7% more passing now then than now. The % aren't all that different now than they were 30 years ago when the threw it 52% of the time. (5% more passing) The ave % of passing over the last 32 years since 1980 haven't increased dramatically like your indicating.

So you think there's basically no difference in 500 runs v 500 passes, and 430 runs v 570 passes

Got it

 

[dbair1967]

I was talking about back then.

Oh. Yeah back then we had a very good OL. A great RB, a great QB and our team didn't fuck itself over with stupid penalties and turnovers.

 

[2233boys]

So you think there's basically no difference in 500 runs v 500 passes, and 430 runs v 570 passes

Got it

Seeing as that isn't what I said, I guess my answer would be no. The difference isn't that great though, like I said 7%, 32 years ago and 5% 30 years ago.