Dodger12

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Almost a week later, the decisions the Cowboys made in the first round of the NFL Draft remains puzzling, even troubling, to those inside and outside the Cowboys organization.

It still is a sore subject among scouts, according to a source.

Call them mess ups 1 and 1A.

The decision to bypass Florida defensive tackle Shariff Floyd, who was ranked as a top-10 pick on the Cowboys draft board was first.

“We are not disappointed in what we drafted at 31, more disappointed in who we passed up at 18," the source said.

It has been well chronicled that owner Jerry Jones made the call to pass on Floyd and trade down in the draft, because Floyd wasn't deemed a good fit for the "under" tackle in the 4-3 defense by the coaches.

Jones was focused on addressing the offensive line or safety in the first round, according to a source. The main targets for those positions -- offensive guards Chance Warmack and Jonathan Cooper and Texas safety Kenny Vaccaro _ were gone before the 18th pick.

They didn't expect Floyd to be there, so there was a long discussion on Floyd. Jones sided with the coaches.

"Jerry wanted to address the offensive line or safety in the first round; no other options were viable," the source said. "When it was said that [Floyd] was not a fit, that's all he needed to hear."

Jones made the call to make a trade to move down in the draft, where the Cowboys were targeting Syracuse guard Justin Pugh with the 31st pick they got from the 49ers.

They assumed/hoped he would be there, but the Giants drafted him 19th.

The Cowboys then took Wisconsin center Travis Frederick, who they deemed to be the last offensive lineman worthy of the pick and capable of helping them this year. Never mind that other teams had Frederick as a second-round pick and some as low as a third-round pick. He was a high second-round pick on the Cowboys board.

Don't misunderstand. People in the Cowboys organization aren't troubled by the pick, just the process and decision to pass on a top-10 player.

"Frederick will be a quality player," a source said. "He has Nick Mangold qualities to him in terms of strength and intelligence. His upper body is strong. He will fight in the hole. The Cowboys got better with Frederick."

Again, it's not the pick that has everyone puzzled; it was the process.

The same goes with the trade with the 49ers. No matter how much owner Jerry Jones and Stephen Jones say they got good value, everyone knows they got snookered -- even those in the organization.

The Cowboys traded the 18th pick for the 31st pick and a third-round pick, 74th overall. Most trade charts indicated the Cowboys should have received a second- and third-round pick from the 49ers in the swap of first rounders -- based on value and how many picks the loaded 49ers had to deal.

Making matters worse is the Cowboys had gone over all scenarios before the draft, including a trade back with the 49ers for the 31st pick. The in-house mock trade had them picking up a second- and a third-round pick in addition to swapping first round picks. Neither Jones nor executive vice president of player personnel Stephen Jones was in the room during the pre-draft scenario.

"You've got to get more than that third-round pick," the source said. "It makes no sense. It is still a sore subject. The scenario had been talked about. A second and third had been talked about. When we did it, Stephen and Jerry weren't in there. It's a learning experience. The decision-makers make the decisions, and we live with it."

-- Clarence Hill

Read more here: http://sportsblogs.star-telegram.co...wboys-scouts.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy
 

Dodger12

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This is interesting for the fact that someone in the Cowboys organization is speaking about the trade down. Would it surprise anyone if the "source" was Garrett or someone close to Garrett?
 

dbair1967

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Al

The Cowboys traded the 18th pick for the 31st pick and a third-round pick, 74th overall. Most trade charts indicated the Cowboys should have received a second- and third-round pick from the 49ers in the swap of first rounders -- based on value and how many picks the loaded 49ers had to deal.

Dallas media at its best again.

I don't know of any trade chart that said the Cowboys should have gotten SF's, 1st, 2nd AND a 3rd rd pick for the 18th selection.

Its fine to say we didn't get enough, but the way that local media goes out of its way to play to its agenda is ludicrous.

The trade down was NOT THAT lopsided. We should have gotten 31 and 61, instead we got 31 and 74. 13 spots lower with one pick. If they were going to get 31 and 74 (as they did) they should have gotten a middle forth-fifth rd pick in addition, based on the old chart.
 

dbair1967

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Oakland: (sent 3 to Miami, for 12 and 42)
Jimmy/McCoy Chart -31%
SportsPlusNumbers +2.8%
Football Perspective +9.3%
Harvard Analytics +14.8%

Buffalo: (sent 8 and 71 to St Louis for 16, 46, 78, and 222)
Jimmy/McCoy Chart +0.5%%
SportsPlusNumbers +17.7%
Football Perspective +22..2%
Harvard Analytics +30.6%

Dallas: (sent 18 to SF for 31 and 74)
Jimmy/McCoy Chart -9.8%
SportsPlusNumbers +16%
Football Perspective +26%
Harvard Analytics +33..2%

St Louis: (sent 22 and 2015 7th rounder to Atlanta for 30, 92 and 198)
Jimmy/McCoy Chart -2.3%
SportsPlusNumbers +24.9%
Football Perspective +36%
Harvard Analytics +50.1%

New England: (sent 29 to Minnesota for 52, 83, 102 and 229)
Jimmy/McCoy Chart +1.5%
SportsPlusNumbers +48.1%
Football Perspective +70.5%
Harvard Analytics +97.9%
 

dbair1967

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Nonsense. the GM is just a figure head. Clarence Hill is not to be trusted.

Oh there's no doubt that Jones overruled somebody, you could see Garrett was absolutely pissed for several minutes when it happened.

That said, I still believe the interior OL was the worst part of the football team for most of the last two-three years and was responsible for not only a ton of bad plays offensively, but obviously contributed to a lack of consistency offensively. Jones gets a ton of very deserved criticism for not only dumb decisions, but for years his perceived lack of concern over the OL. Hard to complain too much about doing what they did this year then, especialy when guys like Hill have been writing for years about how bad the OL is.
 

GloryDaysRBack

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No fuckin way SF gives Dallas 1,2,3 for 18..

Dallas SHOULD have gotten 61 instead of 74..on top of 31...

At the end of the day, it wouldn't have mattered bc I'm willing to bet, Dallas STILL takes TWill at 61...so we would have ended up w the same trade.
 
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Oh there's no doubt that Jones overruled somebody, you could see Garrett was absolutely pissed for several minutes when it happened.

That said, I still believe the interior OL was the worst part of the football team for most of the last two-three years and was responsible for not only a ton of bad plays offensively, but obviously contributed to a lack of consistency offensively. Jones gets a ton of very deserved criticism for not only dumb decisions, but for years his perceived lack of concern over the OL. Hard to complain too much about doing what they did this year then, especialy when guys like Hill have been writing for years about how bad the OL is.
I agree with the OL weaknesses. I just happen to subscribe to the theory that you set your board and you stick with it. You get into lots of trouble when you don't take what you perceive to be the greater value for a lesser value. It's what this franchise has done for years, and the common denominator is the GM.

I also find it appalling that the "decision makers" weren't present when they were going through these draft day scenarios, then overruled the rest of the staff that was there.
 

bbgun

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bb, you want to handle this one?

It's called "externalizing the enemy." You try to persuade a larger population (the fans) that a smaller population (the media) is responsible for all of their troubles and disappointments. Hitler did the same thing with the Jews.
 

Dodger12

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At the end of the day, it wouldn't have mattered bc I'm willing to bet, Dallas STILL takes TWill at 61...so we would have ended up w the same trade.

I'm not so sure about that. The Cowboys could have gone in a whole different direction, as the following players were still on the board at 61: Brian Winters (OG), Eddie Lacy, TJ McDonald, Bennie Logan and Larry Warford. They may have gone TJ McDonald at 61, as reports of Kiffin loving this kid had surfaced. Either way, there were a lot of options at 61 that would have caused our draft to go differently.
 

Dodger12

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I also find it appalling that the "decision makers" weren't present when they were going through these draft day scenarios, then overruled the rest of the staff that was there.

That's a good point. If the "source" is accurate, it's disheartening that neither Jerry nor Stephen was there. I just wonder how much of what this "source" is saying is accurate.
 

jnday

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The truth will come out about the trade in a couple of years. There is no doubt that Jerry went against his coaches and scouts. This will go down in history as another Jerry decision and that is not a good thing.
 

dbair1967

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I'm not so sure about that. The Cowboys could have gone in a whole different direction, as the following players were still on the board at 61: Brian Winters (OG), Eddie Lacy, TJ McDonald, Bennie Logan and Larry Warford. They may have gone TJ McDonald at 61, as reports of Kiffin loving this kid had surfaced. Either way, there were a lot of options at 61 that would have caused our draft to go differently.

I don't think so. Dooley said they seriously considered T Williams at 31, and there's been several stories explaining why they took Escobar over Williams at 47. They decided to take Escobar because with the way the draft fell up to our 47th pick, they felt a quality WR would still be there at 74, whereas no TE anywhere near as good as Escobar would be there.

There's no way to 100% know fir sure, but I'd bet a lot that this IS the way it would have played out.
 

dbair1967

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I also find it appalling that the "decision makers" weren't present when they were going through these draft day scenarios, then overruled the rest of the staff that was there.

You do know they've been having meetings for months on the draft right?

It wasn't a 1 hour meeting one day where they made all their decisions and that was the end of it.
 

dbair1967

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The truth will come out about the trade in a couple of years. There is no doubt that Jerry went against his coaches and scouts. This will go down in history as another Jerry decision and that is not a good thing.

The last example we know of like this is when Jones made Parcells take Ware instead of Spears.

Really the only way this is a bad move is if Frederick is just an average starter or JAG, and Floyd turns into a perennial probowler. If Frederick is a really good starter for us, then the right decision was made because interior OL was far worse off than the DL.
 

Jon88

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The last example we know of like this is when Jones made Parcells take Ware instead of Spears.

Really the only way this is a bad move is if Frederick is just an average starter or JAG, and Floyd turns into a perennial probowler. If Frederick is a really good starter for us, then the right decision was made because interior OL was far worse off than the DL.

I would still rather have JJ Watt over Tyron Smith. The years of screwing up o line picks bit us there.
 
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You do know they've been having meetings for months on the draft right?

It wasn't a 1 hour meeting one day where they made all their decisions and that was the end of it.

Is this a serious fucking post? STFU.

Of course I know that they didn't make all the decisions in one day.

Keep defending this bumbling front office.
 
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