jnday

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So who is going to decide which stay and which go? You? So we keep only the services you're interested and using and everyone else can fuck off? Who is defining "valid basic services"???????

Like I said - you and your brethren's political stances boil down to one thing, and one thing only. You are selfish fucking cunts. And not a one of you will take two seconds to look beyond your own fucking nose and realize that there are people in the world other than you, who have different needs. And we're all part of the same community. So sometimes you're gonna have to shell out money for shit you will never ever ever use. In exchange, you are able to use things like roads, parks, and public services free of charge. That's life. Deal with it.

Selfish? How many times have you carried food to poor families recently? How many hours a week do
you spend helping the elderly? How much money have you spent recently helping others? I will kiss your ass in front of this whole forum if your record comes close to
mine.

Like most liberals, you are full of shit. I prefer to spend my money and time on causes that I choose. If you think the government can serve people in my community better than the privare sector, you are an idiot.

By the way, since you are a true believer, how much extra tax money comes out of your check to support your pro government agenda? You can have extra taxes took out of your check to support your socialist agenda. My guess is zero. You just want to tell others they are selfish for not supporting it though.

I agreed with basic services from the government, but you keep bringing up parks. For what? Is a damn park my problem?
 

junk

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That's exactly what I'm talking about mid.

I'm doing significantly better than my father. I wouldn't say I've jumped classes or anything but things are alot more comfortable for me than they ever were for him. I've gotten lucky, and now I keep meeting people who are making things even easier on me. My advancement has had VERY little to do with hard work. It's like 90% some mix of luck, opportunities, networking, charisma and luck. 10% hard work. So I can have empathy for poor people who will never in their life have the same meetings and opportunities I've had, for whatever reason. And I don't imagine that they could just get out of it if they just tried hard enough, because the poorer you are the less opportunities there are and the tougher it is to change your lot.

I think your percentages are off. You're a civil engineer, right? Now, granted, you guys take easier classes than most other engineers and spend your time building concrete canoes and shit, but you still got a civil engineering degree which isn't exactly a walk in the park. You certainly had to work harder than someone getting a teaching degree or a business degree.

Not disputing that the other things play into it, but I don't think you completely lucked your way into your position now if you have an engineering degree. You did some work.

As far as opportunities, I think you make your own opportunities. Have you read the book Carolla mentions? That guy really did work shit jobs and had a horrible family upbringing (not so much violent, just parents that didn't care). But, he worked hard and got some breaks along the way to pull himself out of it.

So, I agree there is some luck along the way, but you don't get anywhere without some hard work somewhere along the way.
 

junk

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The problem with your position on these issues is that you assume that everybody wants or needs
these services that want people to pay for. Many people prefer to keep their money and spend it on their wants and needs instead of giving the money to the government to blow it. There is too much waste and mismanagement by the government and you support giving them more. Government
spending is like a bottomless pit. I trust myself to spend and manage my money before trusting
congress.

welcome to living in a community, ******. can people who don't use roads not pay for their maintenance? should we charge for use of roads on a per-use basis? god help what that would do to the price of all of our goods. do any of you ever think before you take these idiotic positions or do you just want to start paying for every public service you use? because I promise you don't have that kind of money.

You both have points. The government is horribly wasteful though. Ethanol subsidies are one great example. Billions of dollars wasted each year on that crap. For what? To line the pockets of corn farmers who undoubtedly rant and rave about welfare. Hypocrisy at its best.

Or my college job working for the government. I got paid 9 something an hour (in the 90s) plus sick time plus vacation. Part time during school (could pick my hours) and full time during the summer. Know what I did? Used a spreadsheet to verify that the utility bills being sent to this government agency were correct. I then signed a paper and forwarded it on to another department to actually pay the bill (they double checked it too). OK, you think, that might keep one person moderately busy. It didn't. I did homework or played Tetris most of the time when I was out there. We usually had a staff of 4-6 doing this same thing. Worked that job for three years.
 
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Damn I made minimum wage at my campus employment job. What was it back then like 4.25? I didn't get to study either not like I would have.

I was a ref for intramural games. Got to kick people out of games and stuff. I had a guy that threw a hockey stick at me, so I kicked him out and his team had to forfeit. My boss made me apologize to him. I thought it was BS.
 

jnday

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Damn I made minimum wage at my campus employment job. What was it back then like 4.25? I didn't get to study either not like I would have.

I was a ref for intramural games. Got to kick people out of games and stuff. I had a guy that threw a hockey stick at me, so I kicked him out and his team had to forfeit. My boss made me apologize to him. I thought it was BS.

That is BS. Gotta love the support that the jerk boss gave you.
 

boozeman

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poor people are poor because they like it

They are poor because frankly, there is a certain amount of ease to it.

Real work is alien to the lower class in this country. There is no work ethic.

You can bitch, while collecting food stamps and welfare checks.

It really is a great system.
 

superpunk

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Junk of course the percentages are made up. But i doubt they're far off. You probably just aren't thinking about it as broad as i am.

For instance, how far ahead are we starting by being born to middle class suburban families? Sure an inner city kid might end up the same place i do, but he had to overcome alot to get there.

People are so narrow. They want to imagine that they're the ones entirely in charge of their success. When actually, it's likely that an extremely fortunate chain of events led to their current status. They could have been born in north Korea ffs.

But obviously every once in a while someone breaks through. The issue is that is extremely hard to do that now, especially for the generation coming up, especially in this country. And what's worse, people keep clamoring to make it even harder by passing legislation to strip schools of their funding, etc.

The poor make easy scapegoats. They are easily demonized because noone wants to be like them, so idiots in the middle are easily mobilized against the poor, all you have to do is tell these idiots that the poor are coming for their wealth. They automatically assume the "i don't want you to have what i have" position and take the side of the people who are actually coming for their wealth - the rich.

The ironic part is that the best wayforthe middle to do better is to make sure that the poor are doing well. Standards of living are ALWAYS driven from the bottom up, never the other way around. So it benefits us all to give the poor every opportunity to improve their lot, primarily through education. Instead...the idiots take sides with the people who least have their best interests at heart. I don't understand it.
 

VTA

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Selfish? How many times have you carried food to poor families recently? How many hours a week do
you spend helping the elderly? How much money have you spent recently helping others? I will kiss your ass in front of this whole forum if your record comes close to
mine.

Like most liberals, you are full of shit. I prefer to spend my money and time on causes that I choose. If you think the government can serve people in my community better than the privare sector, you are an idiot.

By the way, since you are a true believer, how much extra tax money comes out of your check to support your pro government agenda? You can have extra taxes took out of your check to support your socialist agenda. My guess is zero. You just want to tell others they are selfish for not supporting it though.

I agreed with basic services from the government, but you keep bringing up parks. For what? Is a damn park my problem?

Winner winner chicken dinner.
Ideals and theories are wonderful to expound on, but when it comes to individual action, there's rarely a peep in response.

The idea that roads and law enforcement is somehow related to an individuals lot in life is a crock o' shit. Like government is a charitable organization that's obligated to feed people.

Oh the poor, let's allow gub'ment to tax us in an ambiguous charity scheme and allow it to trickle down to dem po' folk. This way I'm not directly responsible for the poor people in spitting distance. I don't need to get away from my daily self fest and help you out, the government has it under control.

Bottom up economics, poor people given things are always inclined to share up to the middle class… Yeeaah.
 

Dodger12

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For instance, how far ahead are we starting by being born to middle class suburban families? Sure an inner city kid might end up the same place i do, but he had to overcome alot to get there.

People are so narrow. They want to imagine that they're the ones entirely in charge of their success. When actually, it's likely that an extremely fortunate chain of events led to their current status. They could have been born in north Korea ffs.

But obviously every once in a while someone breaks through. The issue is that is extremely hard to do that now, especially for the generation coming up, especially in this country. And what's worse, people keep clamoring to make it even harder by passing legislation to strip schools of their funding, etc.

Punk, I think there's a lot of truth to what you're saying but your end reasoning that I have bolded is flawed. I don't believe it's more difficult because we cut social programs or education, but because we've taxed and burdened the middle class to the point they can no longer survive.

My parents were very poor but had an incredible work ethic. Working multiple jobs all day, every day, they were able to save enough money to put a down payment on a small business which eventually led them to middle class status. I often ask myself if I could do the same thing today and I just don't think so for several reasons; hard work just doesn't seem to be enough. An increase in costs associated with opening and running your own business make it very difficult to survive in today's climate. Middle class America can't keep it's "wealth" when, for example, the price of college for their kids has increased to a point where it will tap your savings if you want to help your kids get through school and graduate with minimal debt to give them a fighting chance. Tr maintaining insurance to cover you for every contingency. Back in the day, a business owner had to protect himself and his business from fire. Today, you need insurance for all types of frivolous lawsuits from people looking to make a buck. That costs big money and affects the bottom line. Middle class America is entitled to very little; the poor don't pay and the rich can afford it.

Banks used to be more like venture capitalists back in the day. You could walk in a bank and have a fighting chance to get a loan for an upstart business. When banks tightened their lending policies and chose to make money from other revenue streams such as ATM fees and checking fees (outrageous we get charged to keep our money at a bank), it made life more difficult for middle class America to buy, sell and reinvest. It's a vicious cycle.......

The poor have a rough road to get out of poverty in today's society. I agree. And I also agree that one needs some level of luck to succeed as well. But the answer is not burdening the middle class with additional regulations and things like Obama Care to increase their costs. At the end of the day, the poor won't pay for it, the rich can afford it and the middle class gets hit with it.

Add in other factors for the poor such as having kids out of wedlock, father's not being in their children's lives, and the constant stream of benefits that reward people for staying home and doing nothing as opposed to entering the workforce just contributes to keeping the poor at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder. We're just not addressing the things that really need fixing.

OK....I'm off my soap box now.......
 

superpunk

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Winner winner chicken dinner.
Ideals and theories are wonderful to expound on, but when it comes to individual action, there's rarely a peep in response.

The idea that roads and law enforcement is somehow related to an individuals lot in life is a crock o' shit. Like government is a charitable organization that's obligated to feed people.

Oh the poor, let's allow gub'ment to tax us in an ambiguous charity scheme and allow it to trickle down to dem po' folk. This way I'm not directly responsible for the poor people in spitting distance. I don't need to get away from my daily self fest and help you out, the government has it under control.

Bottom up economics, poor people given things are always inclined to share up to the middle class… Yeeaah.

Jesus would be so proud.
 

superpunk

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The poor have a rough road to get out of poverty in today's society. I agree. And I also agree that one needs some level of luck to succeed as well. But the answer is not burdening the middle class with additional regulations and things like Obama Care to increase their costs. At the end of the day, the poor won't pay for it, the rich can afford it and the middle class gets hit with it.

Good post and I agree, even with this. I think moving to a single-payer system will help with this (I know it was just one example) but unfortunately that wasn't possible at this time. It's just the first step in that glorious direction.

That costs big money and affects the bottom line. Middle class America is entitled to very little; the poor don't pay and the rich can afford it.

Bing-fucking-O.

So when half the country elects people who have pledged to not raise taxes ON THE PEOPLE WHO CAN AFFORD IT, as I mentioned earlier....who is getting hit now? I know I am. Because we can't get a single fucking deal through congress that increases taxes on the people who can most afford it, while giving the people who could really use a break, said break. Because god forbid we tax our benevolent "job creators" at a rate they were taxed at when this country was actually prosperous and growth was possible.
 

VTA

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Jesus would be so proud.

Robert-Schuller.jpg
 

JBond

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We shoo blacks and hispanics away from banks trying to open an account?

Well it requires and ID to open an account. Something that minorities are not allowed to have or can't get or some such nonsense according to some around here.
 

JBond

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Junk of course the percentages are made up. But i doubt they're far off. You probably just aren't thinking about it as broad as i am.

For instance, how far ahead are we starting by being born to middle class suburban families? Sure an inner city kid might end up the same place i do, but he had to overcome alot to get there.

People are so narrow. They want to imagine that they're the ones entirely in charge of their success. When actually, it's likely that an extremely fortunate chain of events led to their current status. They could have been born in north Korea ffs.

But obviously every once in a while someone breaks through. The issue is that is extremely hard to do that now, especially for the generation coming up, especially in this country. And what's worse, people keep clamoring to make it even harder by passing legislation to strip schools of their funding, etc.

The poor make easy scapegoats. They are easily demonized because noone wants to be like them, so idiots in the middle are easily mobilized against the poor, all you have to do is tell these idiots that the poor are coming for their wealth. They automatically assume the "i don't want you to have what i have" position and take the side of the people who are actually coming for their wealth - the rich.

The ironic part is that the best wayforthe middle to do better is to make sure that the poor are doing well. Standards of living are ALWAYS driven from the bottom up, never the other way around. So it benefits us all to give the poor every opportunity to improve their lot, primarily through education. Instead...the idiots take sides with the people who least have their best interests at heart. I don't understand it.

:lol Regarding schools...Why is it every liberal idea starts with taking more of someones else money and throwing at the "problem". The problem is not enough money, it is shitty parents and absentee dads. If somehow you can start convincing men to act like men we might make some progress.

Regarding you robin hood plan...How much money has been confiscated and transferred to the poor in the last 60 years? Any idea? How many homeless people have helped you with funding for a business?
 
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Shit even a kid in a shitty school district has an Internet right on their phone. It's not like they don't have a shot. Sure there's probably some shit going down like oversized class rooms. Absentee guidance counslers or whatever but if the kid comes home and has an interest in school they'll be fine.

In carollas highschool the Asians and Jews go onto ucla and cal, the whites do whatever white people do and the blacks and Hispanics went on to dig ditches with carolla.

From the same school.
 

superpunk

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Shit even a kid in a shitty school district has an Internet right on their phone. It's not like they don't have a shot. Sure there's probably some shit going down like oversized class rooms. Absentee guidance counslers or whatever but if the kid comes home and has an interest in school they'll be fine.

In carollas highschool the Asians and Jews go onto ucla and cal, the whites do whatever white people do and the blacks and Hispanics went on to dig ditches with carolla.

From the same school.

their parent's socioeconomic status probably had way more to do with it than their race tbh.
 
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