An uncapped year will act as a reset for our franchise

[Bob Sacamano]

It's funny listening to you guys (sbk) point out the Jets and Raiders D getting by with creative blitz packages when we just signed Rob Ryan...who brings creative blitz packages wherever he goes.

 

[Bonecrusher#31]

Jets leave Revis all by himself and they have no pass rush. Yet he manages to cover 1 on 1 all day long.

Nnamdi has no elite pass rushers and has no problem shutting WR"s down at a record pace. Its one thing to be fat, wrong, and keeping away potential members. At least try to keep up.

I'm with you...I'd hope that we could trade TNew's salary + and give it to Aso..

Pass rush or not our DB's are simply putried.

We have to do something,,,, Huff must be signed at least.

 

[Bonecrusher#31]

A punter wins you the field position battle.

Much more valuable than a dime a dozen cover guy.

Why do you hate the best athletes in the NFL ? lol

 

[sbk92]

Why do you hate the best athletes in the NFL ? lol

One, they aren't the best athletes in the NFL. Some probably are, but so are some running backs and receivers. Even some linebackers.

Two, they play a position that is impossible to play and dominate at unless they get help from others. They are always reactionary. Having to attempt to mirror an all world athletic WR and top shelf QB who know where the play is going. You can not do that consistently enough on a down by down basis to shut down offenses. Can't be done. It's never been done. You just think it has.

I thought this in 1991. I certainly think it in 2011 with the way the rules are slanted to the offense. No corner in this league can stop a comfortable QB's perfect throw to a perfectly run route by an elite WR. You are helpless to it. Because you're reactionary. You have to be a step slow. And if you try to jump routes, now there's contact and you're flagged or you're getting beat with double moves. You make a play here and there but you give up two or three for every one play you do make.

You'd think a franchise that burned a top 5 pick on cornerback to no defensive improvement and then burned another 1st round pick on a cornerback to no defensive improvement, would know enough by now to avoid bringing in another cornerback with a huge contract. Probably one of the biggest contracts in the league.

That is just retarded.

 

[Midswat]

One, they aren't the best athletes in the NFL. Some probably are, but so are some running backs and receivers. Even some linebackers.

Two, they play a position that is impossible to play and dominate at unless they get help from others. They are always reactionary. Having to attempt to mirror an all world athletic WR and top shelf QB who know where the play is going. You can not do that consistently enough on a down by down basis to shut down offenses. Can't be done. It's never been done. You just think it has.

I thought this in 1991. I certainly think it in 2011 with the way the rules are slanted to the offense. No corner in this league can stop a comfortable QB's perfect throw to a perfectly run route by an elite WR. You are helpless to it. Because you're reactionary. You have to be a step slow. And if you try to jump routes, now there's contact and you're flagged or you're getting beat with double moves. You make a play here and there but you give up two or three for every one play you do make.

You'd think a franchise that burned a top 5 pick on cornerback to no defensive improvement and then burned another 1st round pick on a cornerback to no defensive improvement, would know enough by now to avoid bringing in another cornerback with a huge contract. Probably one of the biggest contracts in the league.

That is just retarded.

You continue to grossly exaggerate the value of corners.

There's a reason why corners continue to get those huge contracts, and they are taken high in every draft.

If a quarterbacks first or second read were always open, there isn't a pass rush out there that would get generate a sack.

Likewise, if the front 7 can't generate any pressure, there isn't a corner out there that can cover for an eternity.

They go hand in hand.

Now... ask 10 football coaches what they'd rather have: an elite pass rusher or an elite corner, and I guarantee all 10 would say that they want the pass rusher.

But to say that corners are useless, have no impact on the defense, or that you'd rather have the leagues best punter is just ridiculous hyperbole or extremism and only serves to diminishes your credibility.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Well stated, midTWAT.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

I would rather have the best punter in the league than the best cornerback.

The single most stupid thing i've ever read on a message board. Nice job.

 

[LAZARUS_LOGAN]

The single most stupid thing i've ever read on a message board. Nice job.

And he wants to call other people retarded. This clearly surpasses his claim of Parcells being the G.O.A.T. among HCs.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

You continue to grossly exaggerate the value of corners.

There's a reason why corners continue to get those huge contracts, and they are taken high in every draft.

If a quarterbacks first or second read were always open, there isn't a pass rush out there that would get generate a sack.

Likewise, if the front 7 can't generate any pressure, there isn't a corner out there that can cover for an eternity.

They go hand in hand.

Now... ask 10 football coaches what they'd rather have: an elite pass rusher or an elite corner, and I guarantee all 10 would say that they want the pass rusher.

But to say that corners are useless, have no impact on the defense, or that you'd rather have the leagues best punter is just ridiculous hyperbole or extremism and only serves to diminishes your credibility.

The Cowboy defense has consistently been better rushing the passer than it's been at defending the pass for several years now. They simply aren't a very good pass defense. Last year they were 16th in sacks and 28th vs the pass. Even the year they led the league in sacks 2008? They were middling of the road in pass defense numbers.

Sacks can only accomplish so much.

At some point you need to have people throughout the secondary who can cover... And I'm not just talking corner here, but inside linebacker has been a pit for several years now vs the pass. I don't think OLB is any great shakes either vs the pass.

 

[ravidubey]

The Jets create plenty of pressure through the blitz.

They blitz more because they have great coverage people. That's football 101. And those blitzes don't translate into sacks or even pressures. Watch them and you can see opposing quarterbacks have limited choices. It's not just Revis, either, but he's the main reason. New York just plays disciplined football, and Revis' ability to cover so well (and make QB's pay) allows the team's safeties to rotate the opposite way.

They stopped the best passing teams in the league because they have the very best coverage. End of story. They beat the Pats when it mattered most and handily took care of the Packers.

OTOH I knew before the Superbowl that the Steelers had no chance to beat the Packers. None. The Packers have great coverage and the Steelers don't, so there's no way they could keep up with Aaron Rodgers, no matter how great their pressure was. Not with those average corners and not in those perfect passing conditions. Pittsburgh usually gets into shootouts when they face great passing attacks, but the Packers defensive coverage is not conducive to winning a shootout. Sooner or later you will try to do too much to keep up with Rodgers and throw a pick. And they did (I even called the pick-6).

The Steelers got a bit lucky when the Packers lost two cornerbacks before the second quarter, otherwise it would have been a rout.

Why? Because elite QB's can beat pressure most of the time, especially if the coverage is lacking. Ball snapped, elite QB finds weakness, boom the ball is out. Or... ball snapped, elite QB buys time, shakes off defender, ball is out.

That doesn't mean cornerbacks are more important than pressure players-- not at all. In fact the right way to build a defense is to start with the line, find elite players wherever you can (preferably one at each level of the defense), and fill in the gaps with free agents. Why? Because pressure-based defenses will defeat most of the teams in the league because by definition most teams lack elite QB'ing. Winning most of your games usually gets you into the playoffs.

But when you get into the playoffs you must have great coverage to stop the best QB's in the game. You can have one average CB, but not two. You can have one average safety, but not two. And you really can't have any bad players in the secondary at all.

They just can't be disguised like a weak Lineman or Linebacker can be. Sure a team can pound the football against a weak DT, but LB's can rush up to compensate. That weak DT might cost you 20 yards rushing over the course of the game. A weak DB can cost you over 100 yards and multiple scores in a game. The math does not equate.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The Steelers have for years have followed SBK's motto of putting average corners out there and then concentrating on amping up the pass rush to compensate.

And it's worked for them.

What SBK says isn't all wrong, and I agree with him to an extent. You need to hit the QB. And Pittsburgh does.

Pittsburgh though has been blessed with better safety play (who can argue that?) and I think their inside linebackers cover better than the Cowboys. That's a huge benefit right there.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the Steelers play in a division that is more conducive to running the football as opposed to passing it and their defense is geared towards that.

I don't know how many remember a few years ago, when I think it was the Jets put an awful whipping on the Steelers and then all of a sudden several other teams were doing it also, kinda like what Green Bay did, i.e. spread out the field and force the Steeler OLBers to play coverage.

The bottom line is I think you can field a good defense with average corners, but you better have decent safeties, good coverage ILBers and a decent pass rush.

 

[sbk92]

The Cowboy defense has consistently been better rushing the passer than it's been at defending the pass for several years now. They simply aren't a very good pass defense. Last year they were 16th in sacks and 28th vs the pass. Even the year they led the league in sacks 2008? They were middling of the road in pass defense numbers.

Sacks can only accomplish so much.

At some point you need to have people throughout the secondary who can cover... And I'm not just talking corner here, but inside linebacker has been a pit for several years now vs the pass. I don't think OLB is any great shakes either vs the pass.

Ridiculous. The Cowboys have never in their short tenure as a 3-4 team fielded two quality edge rushers. It's been Ware and just a guy.

You don't win out covering people. You win by making the QB uncomfortable. Anybody who says differently doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Ridiculous. The Cowboys have never in their short tenure as a 3-4 team fielded two quality edge rushers. It's been Ware and just a guy.

You don't win out covering people. You win by making the QB uncomfortable. Anybody who says differently doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.

But wouldn't having a coordinator like Rob Ryan kind of obviate the need to have 2 outstanding rush guys at OLB?

 

[sbk92]

The single most stupid thing i've ever read on a message board. Nice job.

This is coming from the moron who is criticizing the owners for opting out of the CBA as if it's an act of dishonesty.

Except, to the non morons, they simply exercised the opt out option that was written into the CBA.

Seriously. GFY.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Ridiculous. The Cowboys have never in their short tenure as a 3-4 team fielded two quality edge rushers. It's been Ware and just a guy.

You don't win out covering people. You win by making the QB uncomfortable. Anybody who says differently doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.

The Cowboys had 59 sacks in 2008, which led the league.

I hate to tell you but that's pretty good.

 

[sbk92]

The Cowboys had 59 sacks in 2008, which led the league.

I hate to tell you but that's pretty good.

That's an abberation. Not the norm.

Kind of like when Zimmer's defense ranked at the top of the league statistically. Except we all knew it didn't mean anything. They sucked.

I hate to tell you, Mike, but if you watched this defense play over the years and you think we generally do a good job rushing the passer and we just need to continue wasting big investments on cover guys, then maybe you need to follow a more easily understandable sport. Football's too fast for ya.

You are the guy who learned me that the three step drop negates the pass rush.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

That's an abberation. Not the norm.

Kind of like when Zimmer's defense ranked at the top of the league statistically. Except we all knew it didn't mean anything. They sucked.

I hate to tell you, Mike, but if you watched this defense play over the years and you think we generally do a good job rushing the passer and we just need to continue wasting big investments on cover guys, then maybe you need to follow a more easily understandable sport. Football's too fast for ya.

You are the guy who learned me that the three step drop negates the pass rush.

They have been consistently better at rushing the passer than they have at stopping the pass.

It's been that way for several seasons now.

No matter what your "eyes" tell you.

 

[sbk92]

They have been consistently better at rushing the passer than they have at stopping the pass.

It's been that way for several seasons now.

No matter what your "eyes" tell you.

Completely disagree.

What you fail to realize, because you don't know the game, is their failure to cover isn't because of a talent issue at CB. It's because they don't harrass quarterbacks up front. And you can't win in the NFL these days with a comfortable QB scanning the field.

You see the completed pass and blame the cornerback. You can't think bigger picture.

Does anybody really believe that Terence Newman, Mike Jenkins, Orlando Scandrick and Josh Thomas isn't good enough to win with in the NFL? Give me a f'n break. We have twice as much talent there as we do at an actual important position like DE.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Completely disagree.

What you fail to realize, because you don't know the game, is their failure to cover isn't because of a talent issue at CB. It's because they don't harrass quarterbacks up front. And you can't win in the NFL these days with a comfortable QB scanning the field.

You see the completed pass and blame the cornerback. You can't think bigger picture.

Does anybody really believe that Terence Newman, Mike Jenkins, Orlando Scandrick and Josh Thomas isn't good enough to win with in the NFL? Give me a f'n break. We have twice as much talent there as we do at an actual important position like DE.

Ahhh...

Who said that pass defense is just the job of the corners?

Give me your mailing address, I'm going to Amazon you a book on understanding football.

 

[sbk92]

Ahhh...

Who said that pass defense is just the job of the corners?

Give me your mailing address, I'm going to Amazon you a book on understanding football.

You said we've rushed the QB better than we've covered. That's laughably wrong. Our issues with coverage come from not pressuring QBs.

The very best thing that could happen to this defense is not wasting more money and/or picks on a cornerback but to finally find a real edge rushing compliment to DeMarcus Ware. Do that, combine it with a real training camp and practices and you'll be sitting here next year talking about how well all the corners played. And how it couldn't have been possible without their improved play.

Just as wrong as this year.