yimyammer

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The CBA is what is going to sink Zeke's chance at getting the suspension overturned

Regardless of any facts in this case, regardless of what may have or may not have happened, ultimately none of that shit matters because the league as a whole gave up their rights to a fair disciplinary hearing when they gave the Commish 100% control over the entire process

So did Zeke get railroaded? It sure seems like it. Does it matter? Not one single bit. According to the CBA the disciplinary proceedings were handled appropriately according to the agreed upon guidelines.

In the end that's what it will all come down to. When the NFLPA agreed to the new CBA they gave up every single players right to a fair and just trial

that's my understanding as well but it bothers me that the courts throw up their hands in the face of the CBA

The courts wouldn't take this stand if the CBA had a clause that violated civil rights by banning all ________ (insert race here) from working in the NFL, so why can't whatever mechanism that would overturn a civil rights abuse not be able to overturn the denial of the right to a fair and speedy trial, due process and being considered innocent until proven guilty?
 

MrB

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The CBA is what is going to sink Zeke's chance at getting the suspension overturned

Regardless of any facts in this case, regardless of what may have or may not have happened, ultimately none of that shit matters because the league as a whole gave up their rights to a fair disciplinary hearing when they gave the Commish 100% control over the entire process

So did Zeke get railroaded? It sure seems like it. Does it matter? Not one single bit. According to the CBA the disciplinary proceedings were handled appropriately according to the agreed upon guidelines.

In the end that's what it will all come down to. When the NFLPA agreed to the new CBA they gave up every single players right to a fair and just trial

Exactly! That's why I would prefer he just serve the suspension now and just sue the NFL to get his money back later. That's my just my opinion as a fan. I completely understand why he's fighting it though and I would too if I was him. I just dread that the courts are going to decide that he's still going to serve the 6 games because of the CBA and that decision is going to come at the start of the playoffs or when the team is trying to make a playoff run. If the defense were better I wouldn't care when he serves the suspension. The problem is they suck and will need Zeke to protect them like he did last year.
 

dbair1967

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its so strange the NFL has set up a system to mercilessly attack its own employees. Obviously the NFLPA never dreamed turning over discipline to the NFL would be punting any sense of fairness or due process out the window.

Its like the NFL "justice" system is 100% prosecutorial with no consideration for the ramifications on the player and NFL when they're wrong.

I feel like I'm watching a crime show where the prosecutor stills thinks the defendant is guilty and won't relent, even after another person has confessed and his DNA has been found at the crime scene.

Do they teach this mindset in law school or something?

The bigger issue is the consistency (lack of) when it comes to this though.
 

dbair1967

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That's his default excuse. It's how he explains that idiot Free too.

Free had a ton of legit penalties, but there's no question a few of them were pretty dubious. As were a number of other calls against our OL over the years.

The massive disparity in number of holding calls on our guys vs our opponents the past 10-15 years is pretty eye opening.
 

dbair1967

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Exactly! That's why I would prefer he just serve the suspension now and just sue the NFL to get his money back later. That's my just my opinion as a fan. I completely understand why he's fighting it though and I would too if I was him. I just dread that the courts are going to decide that he's still going to serve the 6 games because of the CBA and that decision is going to come at the start of the playoffs or when the team is trying to make a playoff run. If the defense were better I wouldn't care when he serves the suspension. The problem is they suck and will need Zeke to protect them like he did last year.

One of the reasons he is suing is he will NEVER get that money back. He may get his salary back, but he cant get back incentive money and he definitely cant make up income from off field endorsements, as the league has done everything possible to ruin his reputation.

They also know its likely that a court outcome wont come until sometime in 2018 anyway.
 

MrB

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One of the reasons he is suing is he will NEVER get that money back. He may get his salary back, but he cant get back incentive money and he definitely cant make up income from off field endorsements, as the league has done everything possible to ruin his reputation.

They also know its likely that a court outcome wont come until sometime in 2018 anyway.

Not even if he sued them in civil court? If he takes the NFL to civil court and proves that he was unjustly suspended, he couldn't sue them for the same amount that he lost in his contract/endorsements?
 

Scot

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Not even if he sued them in civil court? If he takes the NFL to civil court and proves that he was unjustly suspended, he couldn't sue them for the same amount that he lost in his contract/endorsements?

It's nearly impossible to quantify his "potential" loss of future earnings. Every athlete is different in their value to companies for endorsement deals. How to you determine the amount of damage to his reputation? How to you determine how much it has effected his ability to secure new endorsement deals in the future? Plus he's is only a second year player so we still don't have a real idea of what he could be worth when it comes to endorsement deals. If he had been in the league 5-6 years we would have a pretty good idea on his value at that point. What happens if missing the six games due to this suspension is what keeps him from breaking Dickerson single season rushing record? (I'm not saying it would) but how much could/would that damage his future earning potential from endorsements? How much more value would he have after breaking that record?

I don't see how they could accurately determine how much of a financial impact this entire situation could have on Zeke and his future earnings.
 

dbair1967

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Daniel Wallach @WALLACHLEGAL

Judge Mazzant: "None of the other cases have the facts we have here. Here there is a series of events I can't ignore"

Frank Cawley ‎@Frank_Cawley

This statement explains why NFL is focusing on jurisdiction. They want out of Mazzant's court b/c he sees this case as different than Brady
 

dbair1967

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Frank Cawley ‎@Frank_Cawley

NFL says Mazzant should defer to NY court b/c Texas suit is "anticipatory" forum shopping. That is exactly what the NFL did in Brady & here

Frank Cawley ‎@Frank_Cawley

In fact, as the aggrieved party, Elliott is the natural plaintiff. So NFL rushing to court after an award is classic "anticipatory suit."
 

dbair1967

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Fucking LOL

This league has become a TOTAL fucking joke. After this stunt today with Josh Brown, I really, really hope the courts just destroy the league over this. It wont hurt my feelings if the league crumbles now and doesn't exist.
 

dbair1967

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Mike Greenberg on ESPN going full out Goodell cocksuck today in support of Zeke suspension
 

dbair1967

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I think its a certainty that if Zeke gets his TRO today from the judge the game Sunday night will be fixed.

Goodell is clearly capable of all levels of corruption at this point.
 

dbair1967

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Nicely done indeed.

Only Roger Goodell could turn Ezekiel Elliott into a sympathetic figure

By Sally Jenkins Columnist September 7 at 1:20 PM

It’s time for NFL owners to rethink the powers of the commissioner, for the sake of their own business reputations, which are being sullied. Roger Goodell uses his office as if he’s a blackjack-wielding tough from the 1920s with a crank-starting car. Every other league has seen fit to go to a mature, modern system of neutral arbitration in player discipline cases, for the simple reason that it works better for all. Meanwhile, the NFL lingers in a previous century thanks to one man’s ego.


At this point the question is not whether Ezekiel Elliott committed domestic abuse, which he may well have, but why the commissioner serially abuses his broad disciplinary power and so undermines basic rules of fairness during “investigations” that it becomes impossible to know the facts. Why is it that, in every major adjudication, this commissioner is more interested in subjugating a player, clubbing him with his personal authority, than running a decently transparent process?

Owners must be careful here. Chronic misconduct by the league office threatens to have a competitive impact, to make audiences question the integrity of the game on the field. This is conduct truly detrimental.

The pattern of events is always the same: It starts with a botched investigation that omits crucial facts. Why did the NFL fail to reveal that league investigator Kia Roberts, a former prosecutor, recommended no suspension because she found Elliott’s alleged victim not credible in interviews? Why was this left out of the one-sided final report that led to Elliott’s six-game suspension? Why was Roberts’s conclusion buried? Again, it’s possible that Elliott was guilty of harming his girlfriend. But Goodell’s duty to the Dallas Cowboys and to the public was to explain transparently how he reached such a decision despite Roberts’s finding. Instead there was a coverup and rubber-stamped appeal, as usual, with lots of regretful talk about Goodell’s absolute power under Article 46 of the labor agreement.


So now there is another hard-to-justify penalty from a commissioner who seems more fit to assign detentions in a Victorian boarding school than manage adult human resource problems in the 21st century. Inevitably, the league is tied up in an expensive, damaging, fan-alienating public lawsuit, with both sides fighting over the suspension in two federal courts and the Cowboys facing a season-long legal cloud. It would be one thing if the process was ever, even once, solid. But it’s not. Goodell’s decision was another runaway-domino effect from his failure in the Ray Rice affair. He seems incapable of reasonable evaluation of provable facts. The NFL “disciplinary” system has become crudity dressed up as legality, a show court, a laughingstock.

Ask any legal expert what they make of it, and what you get is rueful bemusement. I called four renowned legal minds, and this is what they had to say.

“What Goodell does under Article 46 is not arbitration,” said Roger Abrams, who has decided more than 2,300 cases for Major League Baseball, the IRS, the coal industry and Fortune 500 companies, and who teaches law at Northeastern University.

“It’s a terrible process, terrible,” said Mark Conrad, a Fordham University professor of sports law, business and ethics. “It really is antithetical to any reasonable idea of what an arbitration should be.”


“It’s the worst of the major leagues by a wide margin,” said Peter Carfagna, former general counsel at IMG and a distinguished lecturer in sports law at Case Western Reserve and Harvard University, and who owns the Cleveland Indians’ Class A affiliate.

“Personally, I think it has the appearance of procedural problems from the very beginning, when you have the power to both hand out discipline and handle any appeal,” said Ed Edmonds, University of Notre Dame emeritus professor of law and author of textbooks on antitrust and sports labor law.

A little history: The “best interest of the game” powers of a commissioner date from 1919, when Major League Baseball brought in Kenesaw Landis the following year in the wake of the Black Sox scandal to go on a morals-clause crusade. Landis set the template by banning players such as Giants center fielder Benny Kauff for “undesirable reputation and character.” The rest of the sports leagues moved past that kind of patrimony-sanctimony years ago in the name of labor peace and built healthier partnerships with their unions. In the 1970s, Marvin Miller persuaded Bowie Kuhn to accede to a three-man arbitration panel in player-financial disputes. In 2014, Bud Selig accepted an arbitrator’s decision to reduce his 211-game discipline of Alex Rodriguez, calling the process “a fair and effective mechanism” that protected everyone concerned. The NBA has a provision for an impartial arbitrator appeal, and so does the NHL.

Why? Not because those league owners are generous but because it’s good business. Every large multipronged company, from Disney to General Electric, recognizes that neutral arbitration is better than trying to enforce managerial will because it’s faster, cheaper, fairer and leads to labor settlement instead of expensive court fighting.

“It works well; it’s usually beyond reproach,” Conrad said.

The NFL’s system is an “aberration” said Conrad, a “faulty” and poorly constructed relic because it gives Goodell authority not just to render punishment for player conduct but to judge the appeal — when in fact he is far from neutral. Owners and players could have fixed this in the last labor talks, but they didn’t. The blame for that lies on both sides.

Still, it need not have become this kind of problem in the hands of a restrained, responsible commissioner. But Goodell does not desire fairness. He just wants to radiate what Alfred Lord Tennyson called “the divine stupidity of a hero.” Goodell delivers the hammer in highly public cases, plunging the league into endless legal wrangling over a compromised process, which makes even the worst perpetrators look like martyrs, until the public is disgusted with all concerned. It’s everything arbitration is meant to avoid.

“It becomes ‘a pox on both your houses,’ ” Carfegna said. “You and me and Joe Public are watching it play out in dribs and drabs, taking up precious federal court time for injunctive relief. The quintessential reasonable fans, we all say that there has to be a better way, fix it.”

The problem is that Goodell is not willing to fix it but clings to his power like hair spray to hair. The assumption has been that the owners aren’t willing to fix it either, that they prefer to let Goodell do their dirty work for them or use the issue as a wedge in the next labor negotiation. But I’m not so sure. Goodell has begun to taint the entire ownership.

Most owners are conscientious businessmen and good strategists with a care for their reputations and an interest in the welfare of their players. They cannot like being perceived as robber barons and coal mine owners. Or happy that Goodell’s mishandling of every issue doesn’t lead to settlements but to legal sieges and exacerbated labor hostility.

“Would it be stupid for the NFL to give the players fair process? No it wouldn’t,” arbitrator Abrams said. “Fairness is a good thing.”
 

dbair1967

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kan·ga·roo court
ˈˌkaNGɡəˈro͞o ˌkôrt/

noun

noun: kangaroo court; plural noun: kangaroo courts

an unofficial court held by a group of people in order to try someone regarded, especially without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor.
 

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kangaroo-court-1.jpg
 
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