dbair1967

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Well it was a win, it's better than a loss but it sure is hard to watch what we've seen in 3 of the last 4 weeks and be excited about this team. All in all it was a painful game to watch for many reasons. Ultimately I still believe we'll miss the playoffs, but with a 4-2 record they'll hang around a bit longer it seems.

1) I thought about saving the Dak stuff for last because my amigo Dodger will stop reading, but despite the obvious shortcomings he has, he was the main reason the offense had ANY success at all last night. Finally put the ball down and ran some and those plays made a difference. Threw the ball fairly well despite truly atrocious pass protection. Had a couple of misses, but on many throws he was not only pressured hard but he also had to contend with blind fucking officials who clearly had another agenda. The 2nd long throw to Gallup that probably should have been a TD, Gallup was CLEARLY held and it wasnt called. Even the one bad miss we all groaned about (the play at the end to Pollard) it definitely appears Pollard is chucked illegally downfield, and Troy himself wondered while seeing it live if it didnt impact the play result. But he didnt throw multiple balls to the defense (as many of us expected) and in the end, did drive us downfield for the GW FG.

2) Have to be happy that the D came up big on final drive and throughout the game, got fairly consistent pressure (albeit no sacks until the Parsons play) and did a great job stuffing the Chargers run game. Strong games from numerous guys, esp Odighizuwa (7 tackles, 1 TFL and several pressures), Bell (all over the place) and Dlaw. Parsons got double and triple teamed quite a bit but still registered a number of QB pressures, had the huge game altering sack and got credit for at least 3 or 4 QB knockdowns. Mazi Smith didnt register a tackle but he had several plays where he blew up the interior OL to help stuff run plays, I suspect they'll look at that tape and believe it was his best game to date.

3) The starting OL "best 5" was absolutely atrocious for the 2nd consecutive week, in fact they were probably WORSE last night than they were a week ago in SF. All 5 of them were terrible, they got literally no push in the run game and gave up pressures on the QB on almost every drop back. They have major work to do there otherwise they have no chance to win against the good teams we play. The OL play was far better the first two games of the season. Everywhere Schottenheimer and Solari have been, they've had really good OL play and strong run games. But not here so far.

4) We definitely have a Mike McCarthy problem. Horrendous coaching and clock management last night and his play calling is downright dreadful. At a minimum, it's probably time for them to move the play calling to Schottenheimer or maybe just let Prescott call his own plays. He was great at it in the preseason finale. Barring some miracle postseason run, I don't see any chance in hell that McCarthy is back as HC next year. Spawn may love drinking with Fatman, but the dude is doing a terrible job of coaching right now and his in game clock management makes Garrett look genius.

5) Worst officiated game of the season last night. I don't care that the total number of accepted penalties ended up "close", the officiating was incredibly one-sided. Refs missed too many obvious things on Charger DB's (and OLs) and the fucked up muffed punt was criminal. They called Fowler and Parsons offsides when it didn't look like either guy was. Prescott took an obvious shot to the head that was ignored, but refs eagle eyed Jayron Kearse for that when the QB probably caused it himself. Gallup was fucking ass raped on at least 3 or 4 plays. Then there was the keystone cops play after we got a 1st down late around the 20. Ref correctly held up play to allow the Chargers to substitute, which they did. The ref pulled away, Prescott takes the snap and is running a PA pass and it appears the Chargers are caught flatfooted, instead the ref starts to GO BACK under C to hold the play up again, and stops play. I have long suspected the league has a serious problem with referees gambling on games, and I have absolutely no doubt that's what influenced the calls and non calls last night.

6) While noting that Gallup was interfered with/held several times, he did not have a good game. Dropped a gimmee 3rd down conversion early, and even though he was obviously held on the one deep ball it still ultimately hit him in the hands and he dropped it. Should have been a TD anyway. Might be time to move him to the bench or see if anyone would trade for him. Jalen Tolbert and Turpin both need more opps and both have more upside right now.

7) Sam Williams may not be 100% (he got the turf toe thing late in camp) but he's been invisible on the field so far this year. If he's hurt, then rest him till he is healthy. If he is healthy, it's time for him to be replaced for awhile because he is not doing anything positive on the field. To me he's one of the most disappointing players on the team 6 games into the season. We needed him to be pretty good, and instead he's been pretty bad. Also put some asinine social media post after the game "free me", not sure if he is asking to be traded or being used more, but if its the latter then his play doesn't warrant it.

8) CeeDee Lamb put on a show last night and the success they have (for the season) when targeting him is outstanding. Aikman seemed to shake his head in disgust with how little he's utilized (I'm sure Irvin would agree). Especially last night, the Chargers didnt double him much and they had nobody that could cover him. Just keep throwing to him until the other team changes what they do. He's the best player on the offense by far, there's no excuse for him to have less targets than the highly ineffective Gallup (last night Gallup had 10 targets, Pollard had 7 and Lamb had 7). Jake Ferguson is a good TE who gets open pretty consistently, he only had 1 target. Schoonmaker had none (not even sure he played much and if he did, maybe he got hurt or something). This is BAD coaching.

8) Tony Pollard had the nice catch and run for 60 yards and broke through what should have been a routine tackle. He also had a huge blitz pickup on the Prescott TD pass. But he doesnt have the long speed anymore, prior to the injury he would have easily scored on that 60 yarder, but he was ran down fairly easily by a DB that doesn't exactly have track speed to begin with. He doesn't have enough speed to get to the corner either it appears. The run blocking is very poor, but getting Dowdle more carries might not be a terrible idea.

9) I still don't think we're "close" as a team where making a trade or two would make sense, but after they eeked out the win I could see Jerry and Spawn maybe looking at some things. They trade for too many WR's, but Gallup is so mediocre now that they might consider a move there. Defensively, they could use a quality starter or at least a key role player or two. They need to address the OL but they won't do it because of what they have invested in the 5 out there, but these guys look like shit right now.

The game is what I said it was last night, a mediocre team beating another mediocre team. Both teams are terribly coached and I firmly believe both teams will have new head coaches after this season. Staley may not even make it to the end of the season.
 
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Dodger12

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1) I thought about saving the Dak stuff for last because my amigo Dodger will stop reading, but despite the obvious shortcomings he has, he was the main reason the offense had ANY success at all last night.

I'd still read it Amigo but we'll come to different conclusions. You feel Dak was the reason we had any sucess and I feel like Dak is the reason we couldn't pull away and almost blew a nice defensive effort against a good QB.

The best plays Dak made were on broken plays (see Pollard, Tony 60 yard run). But I am starting to agree with you and others on MM. I hoped he'd be an offensive minded coach and a bit more innovative but we're not seeing that. I get where he's coming from in terms of playing complementary football but I'm starting to wonder if he's being vanilla because of Dak's shortcomings or because he's just not a bright offensive minded coach.

I'll take the win and we all know there's still a lot of season left.
 

theoneandonly

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A win is win...fine. LAC pass defense is god awful statistically. Dead last against the pass. Averaging almost 290 yards given up vs the pass and 24 points given up per game. This offense couldnt even reach those numbers. They probably beat the Rams then a string of tough games. Not feeling optimistic.
 

dbair1967

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I'd still read it Amigo but we'll come to different conclusions. You feel Dak was the reason we had any sucess and I feel like Dak is the I'm starting to wonder if he's being vanilla because of Dak's shortcomings or because he's just not a bright offensive minded coach.
I think its definitely some of both.
 

dbair1967

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A win is win...fine. LAC pass defense is god awful statistically. Dead last against the pass. Averaging almost 290 yards given up vs the pass and 24 points given up per game. This offense couldnt even reach those numbers. They probably beat the Rams then a string of tough games. Not feeling optimistic.
I actually don't feel very good about the Rams game.
 

RogtaDru

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Delayed the inevitable added media scrutiny a bye week presents.
Just puts off the heat of this HC and QB being further dissected.

But yeah one other thing,
And its either a case of Solari sucks at his job and needs to get his shit together OR the entire oline has forgotten how to run block and the RB forgotten how to run.

But I'll go with the former.
Reminds me of the Bengals castoff OL coach Alexander and him getting fired after a few games.
OL coaching, run design, run scheme - All are pathetic.
 
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dbair1967

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Delayed the inevitable added media scrutiny a bye week presents.
Just puts off the heat of this HC and QB being further dissected.

But yeah one other thing,
And its either a case of Solari sucks at his job and needs to get his shit together OR the entire oline has forgotten how to run block and the RB forgotten how to run.

But I'll go with the former.
Reminds me of the Bengals castoff OL coach Alexander and him getting fired after a few games.
OL coaching, run design, run scheme - All are pathetic.
Alexander was never any good.

Solari has been good everywhere he has been.

I'd put this more on the country club/circus/zoo like JJ environment than any sort of indictment on Solari. To me the problem is 100% obvious, they don't work hard or practice hard and it shows up on game days. And JJ is the reason why.
 

RogtaDru

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Blaming it ALL on the owner/GM has it's merits most definitely with this team. As he is responsible for the hiring of the HC and drafting of the QB.

BUT even while Jerry is undermining or meddling or creating the culture, that still does not absolve both the HC and QB of performing better at their jobs. Particularly against above .500 opponents.

And since the road to NFL success is based on the GM, HC and QB all performing optimally at their positions, then all 3 bear a specific amount of responsibility to team failure.

Jerry gets the lion's share of the blame for sure, but both the HC and QB suck at their individual jobs too if you ask me.

This is to include McCarthy's staff selection.
I havent fogotten the Nolan DC selection nor have I ever read McCarthys specific role in the Quinn hiring.

I just think Solari sucks at his job, along with Jerry, McCarthy AND Dak all sucking at theirs. Solari's o-lines to me, have not been but middle of the pack or slightly better at most of his previous stops but I'll double check on that.

Just my opinion.

I'm an equal opportunity hater. I think the GM,HC and QB all suck at their jobs. But I'll keep on trying to root for my team of going on 50 years now regardless of these circumstances.
 

icup

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i remember when nolan was DAL's DC and he touched his eye during a press conference then had to stop everything to wash his eye out because it was burnign from the tobasco sauce he had on his hand
 

dbair1967

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Blaming it ALL on the owner/GM has it's merits most definitely with this team. As he is responsible for the hiring of the HC and drafting of the QB.

BUT even while Jerry is undermining or meddling or creating the culture, that still does not absolve both the HC and QB of performing better at their jobs. Particularly against above .500 opponents.

And since the road to NFL success is based on the GM, HC and QB all performing optimally at their positions, then all 3 bear a specific amount of responsibility to team failure.

Jerry gets the lion's share of the blame for sure, but both the HC and QB suck at their individual jobs too if you ask me.

This is to include McCarthy's staff selection.
I havent fogotten the Nolan DC selection nor have I ever read McCarthys specific role in the Quinn hiring.

I just think Solari sucks at his job, along with Jerry, McCarthy AND Dak all sucking at theirs. Solari's o-lines to me, have not been but middle of the pack or slightly better at most of his previous stops but I'll double check on that.

Just my opinion.

I'm an equal opportunity hater. I think the GM,HC and QB all suck at their jobs. But I'll keep on trying to root for my team of going on 50 years now regardless of these circumstances.
Definitely need to do your homework on Solari. One of the more respected OL coaches in the league and has directed a number of outstanding OL's over the years.
 

RogtaDru

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Definitely need to do your homework on Solari. One of the more respected OL coaches in the league and has directed a number of outstanding OL's over the years.
Yeah,
I did check his overall career oline rankings. Good early start to his career in the late 90s and he has used different schemes.
But yeah, avg. to bad the last 5 to 10 years. Fired by Carroll for a reason.

Name recognition does not equal quality performance in my book but I can respect difference of opinion.
No worries.
 

Scot

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I actually don't feel very good about the Rams game.

Neither do I

If they only win one more game this season I hope it’s the Rams game. Just so I don’t have to listen to all the shit I’m gonna get if we lose. Everyone here locally claims to be a Rams fan since they won the Super Bowl. Even when half of them can’t name a player not name Donald, Kupp or Stafford.
 

dbair1967

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Yeah,
I did check his overall career oline rankings. Good early start to his career in the late 90s and he has used different schemes.
But yeah, avg. to bad the last 5 to 10 years. Fired by Carroll for a reason.

Name recognition does not equal quality performance in my book but I can respect difference of opinion.
No worries.
Seattle run game when Solari was OL coach:

2021- ranked 11th in yds and 3rd in yds per attempt, despite ranking only 27th in attempts
2020- ranked 12th in yds, 6th in yds per attempt
2019- ranked 3rd in rush attempts, 4th in yds and 10th in yds per attempt
2018- anked 2nd in attempts, 1st in rushing yards and 5th in yds per attempt

Maybe Solari got blamed some for all the sacks Russell Wilson took, but Solari wasnt his OL coach last yr when Wilson led the league in times sacked either. Maybe its just Wilson holds the ball too long.

The guys a great OL coach, not sure why you think he was only good early but his lines in Kansas City and San Fran were top notch for many years (and many outstanding OL say he was the reason why) and Seattle had great rushing teams when he was there despite not having a ton of talent to work with.
 

RogtaDru

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Okay, whichever point you're trying to prove I'm not sure, but yours are not the only statistics out there.
Specifically,
PFF'S o-line rankings dating back to 2016 they rate his o-lines as follows:
2016-20th(Giants)
2017-26th(Giants)
2018-17th(Seattle)
2019-27th(Seattle)
2020-14th(Seattle)
2021-25th(Seattle)
2022-Fired by Carroll, did not coach in 2022.
So I'll stick to my opinion that he ain't all that.

It's funny because your offseason o-line discussion stance was touting the o-line starters and depth quality.

I even somewhat agreed while the majority here said our oline depth was really poor.

Now, all of a sudden, none of our starters can run block and the RB can't run behind them either.

You think maybe, just maybe there could be a coaching issue?
Or did the starting five's oline run block ability all simultaneously fall off a cliff and take the RB with them?

Opinions vary I guess.
Homework complete.
 

dbair1967

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Okay, whichever point you're trying to prove I'm not sure, but yours are not the only statistics out there.
Specifically,
PFF'S o-line rankings dating back to 2016 they rate his o-lines as follows:
2016-20th(Giants)
2017-26th(Giants)
2018-17th(Seattle)
2019-27th(Seattle)
2020-14th(Seattle)
2021-25th(Seattle)
2022-Fired by Carroll, did not coach in 2022.
So I'll stick to my opinion that he ain't all that.

It's funny because your offseason o-line discussion stance was touting the o-line starters and depth quality.

I even somewhat agreed while the majority here said our oline depth was really poor.

Now, all of a sudden, none of our starters can run block and the RB can't run behind them either.

You think maybe, just maybe there could be a coaching issue?
Or did the starting five's oline run block ability all simultaneously fall off a cliff and take the RB with them?

Opinions vary I guess.
Homework complete.
I haven't looked into his stay with the Giants, but with Seattle the stats are the stats Amigo. Seattle was a great running team there with Solari as OL coach. Perhaps they get dinged by PFF because of all the sacks Russell Wilson took, but you also have to take into account that when Seattle sent him to Denver, he got sacked a ton there too. So maybe some of it is just him (kinda like with Prescott, who clearly holds the ball too long)

As for us. None of starting OL are healthy. Hopefully they'll be better after having the bye week, but to hear Broaddus and a few other guys who see the players during thr week it's pretty bad. Terrence Steele is clearly not right (and probably won't be this year now). Broaddus says essentially Martin is playing on one leg. Biadsaz is playing hurt. Tyron has the knee thing and Tyler Smith missed the first two games with an injury. He's probably the healthiest of the 5.
 

RogtaDru

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I haven't looked into his stay with the Giants, but with Seattle the stats are the stats Amigo. Seattle was a great running team there with Solari as OL coach. Perhaps they get dinged by PFF because of all the sacks Russell Wilson took, but you also have to take into account that when Seattle sent him to Denver, he got sacked a ton there too. So maybe some of it is just him (kinda like with Prescott, who clearly holds the ball too long)

As for us. None of starting OL are healthy. Hopefully they'll be better after having the bye week, but to hear Broaddus and a few other guys who see the players during thr week it's pretty bad. Terrence Steele is clearly not right (and probably won't be this year now). Broaddus says essentially Martin is playing on one leg. Biadsaz is playing hurt. Tyron has the knee thing and Tyler Smith missed the first two games with an injury. He's probably the healthiest of the 5.
As for me personally I just have a hard time accepting the extremely putrid overall 5 yards per play whether passing or running.
And individually, Pollard's and Dowdle's measly 3.8 ypc avg.

If you say it's injuries then I'll take your word for it but in my view that means they aren't going to miraculously all heal as the season goes along and gets more difficult.
Seems like common sense the earlier in the season, the healthier the player would be but fair enough if you say so.

But now then the coaching impact should be an even bigger factor since the offensive coaches philosophy, identity or scheme has not been successful with a previously less injured group up til now.
So it is paramount for Solari and the rest to be able to coach them up.

Aint no big deal man, you like Solari, I dont.
Many like McCarthy.
I dont.
I also include Jerry and Dak to round out my top 4 of people I don't like on this team and reasons for Cowboy failure because of the very important positions they hold.

It's a struggle to root for them in this weird way but I'll continue my loyalty regardless.

Go Cowboys.
 

dbair1967

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I'm of the opinion that McCarthy probably isnt the guy now, but I say that with the caveat that we don't know for sure how much is him and how much is the Jones/Spawn ridiculous environment for the players.

I only like Solari because his track record in San Fran (twice) and Kansas City was excellent, and Seattle was one of the top rushing teams while he was there as OL coach. I also think he is vastly better than the other guy we had under McCarthy there.

I don't think Prescott is the guy nor do I think he ever will be now.

As for the injuries, your statement that injuries should get worse and not better as the season progresses would normally be true, but we had two key guys coming off MAJOR injuries (Pollard and Steele, neither of whom look right) and then the rest of the OL has taken turns missing time since week one. I'm not sure if Steele and Pollard will ever ben close to what they were last yr this season, but the other guys (Martin, Biadasz and both Smith's) should improve/heal with time (assuming they don't reinjure themselves)
 

RogtaDru

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I'm of the opinion that McCarthy probably isnt the guy now, but I say that with the caveat that we don't know for sure how much is him and how much is the Jones/Spawn ridiculous environment for the players.

I only like Solari because his track record in San Fran (twice) and Kansas City was excellent, and Seattle was one of the top rushing teams while he was there as OL coach. I also think he is vastly better than the other guy we had under McCarthy there.

I don't think Prescott is the guy nor do I think he ever will be now.

As for the injuries, your statement that injuries should get worse and not better as the season progresses would normally be true, but we had two key guys coming off MAJOR injuries (Pollard and Steele, neither of whom look right) and then the rest of the OL has taken turns missing time since week one. I'm not sure if Steele and Pollard will ever ben close to what they were last yr this season, but the other guys (Martin, Biadasz and both Smith's) should improve/heal with time (assuming they don't reinjure themselves)
Fair enough.
 
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