Anyone ever heard this before re: Witten

[Midswat]

There's a lengthy article on him in this past weeks SI.

Per the article, the team wanted to take TE Mike Seidman from UCLA, who went a few picks later to Carolina. Parcells was adament they take Witten.

Seidman was out of the league in less than 5 years.

Could you imagine if that had taken place? Arguably one of the top 5 Cowboys of all time almost wasn't a Cowboy.

 

[dbair1967]

There's a lengthy article on him in this past weeks SI.

Per the article, the team wanted to take TE Mike Seidman from UCLA, who went a few picks later to Carolina. Parcells was adament they take Witten.

Seidman was out of the league in less than 5 years.

Could you imagine if that had taken place? Arguably one of the top 5 Cowboys of all time almost wasn't a Cowboy.

Parcells really fucked up and we were lucky to get Witten anyway. Witten was expected by many to go late 1st or early 2nd. We passed on him in the 2nd for Al Johnson (who like Jacob Rogers, the scouts advised AGAINST taking, but Parcells insisted). Nobody could believe Witten was there for us in the 3rd.

 

[UVAwahoos]

Parcells really fucked up and we were lucky to get Witten anyway. Witten was expected by many to go late 1st or early 2nd. We passed on him in the 2nd for Al Johnson (who like Jacob Rogers, the scouts advised AGAINST taking, but Parcells insisted). Nobody could believe Witten was there for us in the 3rd.

Love the logic of how "Parcells fucked up" by not hitting on 100% of his players. The Parcells core of Romo, Witten and Ware is better than anything since Jimmy. I think BP did just fine here.

 

[bbgun]

[video=youtube;ey9y0KnRnzM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey9y0KnRnzM[/video]

 

[yimyammer]

Love the logic of how "Parcells fucked up" by not hitting on 100% of his players. The Parcells core of Romo, Witten and Ware is better than anything since Jimmy. I think BP did just fine here.

Best coach we've had since Jimmy, the Cowboys were unwatchable before he took over and his impact still resonates today.

probably the last great coach they'll have while jerri is kicking

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

I've heard Broaddus say that Parcells largely sat out that draft because he'd only just arrived, but that Bill gets credit for Witten.

 

[Midswat]

IIRC the story was Parcells wanted two players at #5... either Dwayne Robertson (who went before we picked to the Jets) or Kevin Williams, who went later to Minnesota. I don't think he wanted anything to do with Newman.

 

[dbair1967]

Yeah he really wanted Robertson, who was a bust.

Williams was a really good player, but T New was not a bad pick and a quality player here for a long time. Some scouting services had T New rated the #1 player in the draft.

 

[dbair1967]

Love the logic of how "Parcells fucked up" by not hitting on 100% of his players. The Parcells core of Romo, Witten and Ware is better than anything since Jimmy. I think BP did just fine here.

He did fuck up, but we got ultra lucky.

Nothing wrong with lucky but it could have ended up badly. Also remember he drafted Bobby Carpenter, traded down and took Julie Jones and wanted to draft Spears before Ware.

He was NOT without his faults.

 

[dbair1967]

Best coach we've had since Jimmy, the Cowboys were unwatchable before he took over and his impact still resonates today.

probably the last great coach they'll have while jerri is kicking

The best thing Parcells did was change the culture and how scouting was looked at. He made a lot of decisions far better than Jerry did post Jimmy till that time.

But he was not a "great" coach here. He clearly came back for the money, he never showed the same energy in Dallas that he did in NYG or New England (or even with the Jets for that matter). His last game as HC here he was BADLY outcoached in Seattle.

 

[junk]

10-6 with Quincy and Hambrick

All the "Parcells wasn't that great" should just end once you realize that

 

[Dustdevil]

What Parcells added was the churn the bottom of the roster concept. We became a deeper team talent-wise. Suddenly we started arguing over the best 3rd string safety rather than starting guards.

 

[dbair1967]

10-6 with Quincy and Hambrick

All the "Parcells wasn't that great" should just end once you realize that

Ever heard of the term "fluke"

Easiest schedule in league that year wasnt it? didnt we get shit stomped several times at the end of that yr and playoff game?

But if you are going to put that spin that you used on it, shouldnt he then be considered a flop for having better teams that didnt do anything in following years?

 

[onlyonenow]

Ever heard of the term "fluke"

Easiest schedule in league that year wasnt it? didnt we get shit stomped several times at the end of that yr and playoff game?

But if you are going to put that spin that you used on it, shouldnt he then be considered a flop for having better teams that didnt do anything in following years?

I classify the BP haters with the Romo haters. Irrational and stupid.

This franchize was IN THE TOILET when BP arrived. Considering how much wood had to be chopped it was no wonder BP was exhausted after 4 years.

Sure he made drafting mistakes but his overall roster worked so well that the core of players he put together lasted even with Doughboy as coach.

And having to fight Jerruh tooth and nail probably just about every day would wear on anyone- even someone a LOT younger then he was.

No other coach rebuilt four franchizes into playoff teams.
Giants
Patriots
Jets
Cowboys

And he was pretty old and tired by the time he got to the Boys. I think he pretty much gave all he had left here; noticeable that he made it very clear he was never going to coach again after he left Dallas and has not.

by the way if 2003 was a fluke what about 2014? only its much more likely that was indeed a fluke with Garret.

The boys showed life late in 2004 and were contending for the playoffs all the way through 2006 from then on. Consistent playoff teams - which coach have we had that you could say that about since Jimmy? OK one could say that word - Switzer- but the arrow was clearly pointing down almost his entire time here.

 

[junk]

I don't get this desire to try to diminish what Parcells did in Dallas

Not many coaches would get in the playoffs with that team. Totally changed the culture in Dallas.

Drafted and developed some potential HoF players

Did more in 4 years than any coach under Jerry other than Jimmy

Did he win a Super Bowl? No, but overall his presence was overwhelmingly positive

Diminishing his time in Dallas is ridiculous

 

[onlyonenow]

I don't get this desire to try to diminish what Parcells did in Dallas

Not many coaches would get in the playoffs with that team. Totally changed the culture in Dallas.

Drafted and developed some potential HoF players

Did more in 4 years than any coach under Jerry other than Jimmy

Did he win a Super Bowl? No, but overall his presence was overwhelmingly positive

Diminishing his time in Dallas is ridiculous

certain posters have this need to make themselves look smart by idiotic ramblings about HOF coaches.

 

[dbair1967]

What I dont get is why some have such low reading comprehnsion skills.

Nobody has disputed Parcells wasnt a great coach. He was arguably the best coach in football while with the Giants, and he did an excpetional job with the Pats. He got the NYJ to a conference championship game.

Nobody disputes he came in and resurrected a team in the toilet here in Dallas, and in the process heklped reign in that idiot Jones some.

Nobody disputes the improvements he made in how the front office and scouting worked here.

What is also NOT disputable is he was NOT the same game day quality coach here that he was early in his career. He definitely lost some of the fire in his belly tht he had erly in his caeeer. He was a very intimiadating coach especially in NYG, he was a shell of his former self in that regard here in Dallas.

 

[Midswat]

I classify the BP haters with the Romo haters. Irrational and stupid.

I'm not a Parcells hater, but I also don't get the sometimes over the top adoration for the guy either. That said, even I recognize that he was easily the best head coach we've had since Jimmy.

This franchize was IN THE TOILET when BP arrived. Considering how much wood had to be chopped it was no wonder BP was exhausted after 4 years.

Truthfully, I think Parcells was exhausted WHEN he came here. We all know the divorce he went through. There was obvious financial motivations for him. He left Tampa Bay at the alter the year before I believe, which makes you wonder how much fire did he have to really do it again.

I think we got max effort from Parcells year one, and he was probably coasting then on. JMO.

Sure he made drafting mistakes but his overall roster worked so well that the core of players he put together lasted even with Doughboy as coach.

And to be fair, I can't think of a single coach who has succeeded as the GM. Coaches coach, scouts scout. The best coaches typically have a strong GM with whom their philosophies align.

No other coach rebuilt four franchizes into playoff teams.
Giants
Patriots
Jets
Cowboys

While true, I'd think you'd at least acknowledge that this is because most successful coaches don't bounce around the league constantly.

Heck... how many coaches in total have coached four NFL teams? Let alone taken them to the playoffs? Typically an owner would keep a winning coach.

by the way if 2003 was a fluke what about 2014? only its much more likely that was indeed a fluke with Garret.

2003 was absolutely NOT a fluke. You can't "fluke" your way to 10 wins with Quincy Carter and Troy Hambrick. And not just them.... that 2003 team was almost completely devoid of talent.

2014 was absolutely a fluke.

• Easy schedule... AFC South?
• Played 5 either rookie or back up QB's that year
• MVP performances from both DeMarco Murray & Tony Romo
• Virtually zero injuries all year. We lost Claiborn but thats addition by subtraction at that point.
• The rest of the NFC East was in shambles. Toughest competition was a team QB'd by Mark Sanchez
• We still barely won a playoff game against a Detroit team who's like 3-8 this year.

 

[cmd34]

I don't know what the fascination is with some Cowboys fans to minimize Jimmy Johnson's or Bill Parcells' impact here. It's like bringing them down somehow brings their hero Jerry Jones higher.

Could you imagine this franchise with Jerry and without Jimmy and Bill? We'd be the worst franchise in sports. Jerry's a great salesman but he can't sell 5 wins a year for 30 plus years.

 

[yimyammer]

I don't get this desire to try to diminish what Parcells did in Dallas

Not many coaches would get in the playoffs with that team. Totally changed the culture in Dallas.

Drafted and developed some potential HoF players

Did more in 4 years than any coach under Jerry other than Jimmy

Did he win a Super Bowl? No, but overall his presence was overwhelmingly positive

Diminishing his time in Dallas is ridiculous

me neither, sure he wasn't perfect, no coach is but I think he is without a doubt the best thing to have happened to the Cowboys since Jimmy left.

I love nothing more than to have an off the record conversations with him where he is fully candid about the nonsense he had to put up with from jerri. I heard somewhere that when Bill was at ESPN, he revealed all the crap that jerri pulled. I'm admittedly skeptical of this story since I don't know how anyone would know this