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I didn't need anyone to tell me that. His actions over his lifetime and as Pres tell it loud and clear.
- Thread starter Woodson Bible & Guns
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I didn't need anyone to tell me that. His actions over his lifetime and as Pres tell it loud and clear.
yimyammer
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You're too over the top and irrational in your beliefs.
All these mother fuckers suck (republicans and democrats) and have driven the national debt to such ridiculous amounts that I honestly can't see a way out other than something catastrophic or a technological miracle that brings in so much tax revenue that the debt could be paid off. Problem is even if that miracle occurred, the jackasses would just piss it away on something else and not solve the biggest problem hanging over this country like an albatross.
Singling out Obama is like trying to get me to like Jack the Ripper because he wasn't as bad as Ted Bundy.
Both parties should be thrown out on their asses but it will never happen because die hards like you love hating die hards on the other side and y'all will sink to the bottom of the ocean in a death grip of hate, killing each other and taking down the ship in the process.
ThoughtExperiment
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But no independent and no outsider could eliminate that debt. It's already way too big a monster that's been built over decades.
I'm not excusing it, but every developed western country (and most eastern ones as well) are the same in that regard.
I'm not excusing it, but every developed western country (and most eastern ones as well) are the same in that regard.
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Apparently you don't pay attention then, I'm all for throwing them ALL (or almost all) out. I'm reasonably sure I'm the biggest proponent of term limits in this forum. Those cockroaches that go there and make a career out of staying in Washington are the single biggest problem we have and its something that has a really simple fix. They don't go up there with the idea that they need to help the country or fix things that are broken, they go there with the idea that its a do nothing job they can cling onto and get all kinds of dough and perks from tax payers and lobbyists.
And not one word I posted in that reply about why normal people hate Obama was untrue. It was all accurate.
yimyammer
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You're right I don't pay attention to everything written on this subject, glad you feel this way about term limits, etc but supporting either of these two parties isn't going to change shit. None of them have the courage to address the gorilla in the room, much less admit to its existence.
And I'm not suggesting a third party is going to solve much, if any problems for that matter, it would merely represent a breaking point and a shot across the bow of both parties that could give a foothold to needed change. The status quo needs to be blown the fuck up but it wont ever happen because all of us that see the problems won't unite (from all parties) and lay out a plan that would require extreme sacrifices and drastic changes required to even attempt to fix the debt and other issues.
Its why I said I believe its going to require a catastrophic event where we as Americans are forced to change. We're spoiled and won't make the needed changes, sacrifices as well as accept the pain that would be incurred to remedy these issues until we absolutely have too.
And I don't believe the statement below of yours is accurate, I think its hyperbole because you hate the man and the party he represents, you might even be driven by racism but I'm not 100% sure, so my apologies if inaccurate. Even without the racism, you've said enough to make me believe that hate &/or anger (perhaps justified in many cases) have distorted your ability to look at certain things in a rational way, case in point:
But let's agree to disagree on your statement above because I'm not going to waste time in a never-ending back and forth to attempt to convince you otherwise. I'll just say, duly noted and I will keep your assertions in mind as I attempt to understand what the truth really is in regard to Obama & Obama related issues.
I am open to hearing a logical explanation of how and why the 20+ trillion in debt is not a real problem and would be thrilled if that were somehow true, so please, by all means, let me have it.
Its my number one concern for our country because it should ultimately wreck the economy and value of the dollar which is the foundation for our military as well as how we are able to exert influence throughout the world without force.
Thought Experiment, how do you see our debt issue playing out? Are we just fucked until we go through hyper inflation and/or declare bankruptcy and kill the dollar altogether?
I believe this, if any one of us lived the way our government does, we'd be bankrupt and in jail.
Lastly, no hate to either of you or anyone else in this thread, my frustration is directed squarely at our government and the two parties that have gotten us in this mess and like all of you (I assume), I believe we deserve better.
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I wondered about the timing too, although they claim its because new email evidence has been brought to their attention. They didn't really say what it was or where it came from.
The cynic in me line of thinking might be is that the polls I think are showing a large % of the public believes there wasnt a "real" investigation before, and that by now going back and saying they are "reopening the investigation" they can come back in a few days and say "well we looked again and there's nothing really here, we've really went the extra mile to thoroughly investigate"
Hope I'm wrong, I truly hope that Hag ends up in shackles.
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Was just posting that same thing. Unfortunately that's what I think too.
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#whatasurprise
Congress: Attorney General
Lynch ‘Pleads Fifth’ on Secret Iran ‘Ransom’ Payments
Obama admin blocking congressional probe into cash payments to Iran
BY: Adam Kredo
October 28, 2016 11:22 am
Attorney General Loretta Lynch is declining to comply with an investigation by leading members of Congress about the Obama administration’s secret efforts to send Iran $1.7 billion in cash earlier this year, prompting accusations that Lynch has “pleaded the Fifth” Amendment to avoid incriminating herself over these payments, according to lawmakers and communications exclusively obtained by the Washington Free Beacon.
Sen. Marco Rubio (R., Fla.) and Rep. Mike Pompeo (R., Kan.) initially presented Lynch in October with a series of questions about how the cash payment to Iran was approved and delivered.
In an Oct. 24 response, Assistant Attorney General Peter Kadzik responded on Lynch’s behalf, refusing to answer the questions and informing the lawmakers that they are barred from publicly disclosing any details about the cash payment, which was bound up in a ransom deal aimed at freeing several American hostages from Iran.
The response from the attorney general’s office is “unacceptable” and provides evidence that Lynch has chosen to “essentially plead the fifth and refuse to respond to inquiries regarding [her] role in providing cash to the world’s foremost state sponsor of terrorism,” Rubio and Pompeo wrote on Friday in a follow-up letter to Lynch, according to a copy obtained by the Free Beacon.
The inquiry launched by the lawmakers is just one of several concurrent ongoing congressional probes aimed at unearthing a full accounting of the administration’s secret negotiations with Iran.
“It is frankly unacceptable that your department refuses to answer straightforward questions from the people’s elected representatives in Congress about an important national security issue,” the lawmakers wrote. “Your staff failed to address any of our questions, and instead provided a copy of public testimony and a lecture about the sensitivity of information associated with this issue.”
“As the United States’ chief law enforcement officer, it is outrageous that you would essentially plead the fifth and refuse to respond to inquiries,” they stated. “The actions of your department come at time when Iran continues to hold Americans hostage and unjustly sentence them to prison.”
The lawmakers included a copy of their previous 13 questions and are requesting that Lynch provide answers by Nov. 4.
When asked about Lynch’s efforts to avoid answering questions about the cash payment, Pompeo told the Free Beacon that the Obama administration has blocked Congress at every turn as lawmakers attempt to investigate the payments to Iran.
“Who knew that simple questions regarding Attorney General Lynch’s approval of billions of dollars in payments to Iran could be so controversial that she would refuse to answer them?” Pompeo said. “This has become the Obama administration’s coping mechanism for anything related to the Islamic Republic of Iran—hide information, obfuscate details, and deny answers to Congress and the American people.”
“They know this isn’t a sustainable strategy, however, and I trust they will start to take their professional, and moral, obligations seriously,” the lawmaker added.
In the Oct. 24 letter to Rubio and Pompeo, Assistant Attorney General Kadzik warned the lawmakers against disclosing to the public any information about the cash payment.
Details about the deal are unclassified, but are being kept under lock and key in a secure facility on Capitol Hill, the Free Beacon first disclosed. Lawmakers and staffers who have clearance to view the documents are forced to relinquish their cellular devices and are barred from taking any notes about what they see.
“Please note that these documents contain sensitive information that is not appropriate for public release,” Kadzik wrote to the lawmakers. “Disclosure of this information beyond members of the House and Senate and staff who are able to view them could adversely affect the diplomatic relations of the United States, including with key allies, as well as the State Department’s ability to defend [legal] claims against the United States [by Iran] that are still being litigated at the Hague Tribunal.”
“The public release of any portion of these documents, or the information contained therein, is not authorized by the transmittal of these documents or by this communication,” Kadzik wrote.
Congressional sources have told the Free Beacon that this is another part of the effort to hide details about these secret negotiations with Iran from the American public.
One senior congressional source familiar with both the secret documents and the inquiry into them told the Free Beacon that the details of the negotiations are so damning that the administration’s best strategy is to ignore lawmakers’ requests for more information.
“Every Obama administration official and department involved in the Iran Deal appear to be running for cover,” the source said. “Like we feared, the [Iran deal] is turning out to be a disaster and Iran is emboldened in its aggression. Evidently Attorney General Lynch and the Department of Justice have decided ‘refusal to cooperate’ is their best strategy. But this is dangerous and ultimately won’t protect them from anything.”
Update: The headline has been updated to more accurately characterize the story.
Congress: Attorney General
Lynch ‘Pleads Fifth’ on Secret Iran ‘Ransom’ Payments
Obama admin blocking congressional probe into cash payments to Iran
BY: Adam Kredo
October 28, 2016 11:22 am
Attorney General Loretta Lynch is declining to comply with an investigation by leading members of Congress about the Obama administration’s secret efforts to send Iran $1.7 billion in cash earlier this year, prompting accusations that Lynch has “pleaded the Fifth” Amendment to avoid incriminating herself over these payments, according to lawmakers and communications exclusively obtained by the Washington Free Beacon.
Sen. Marco Rubio (R., Fla.) and Rep. Mike Pompeo (R., Kan.) initially presented Lynch in October with a series of questions about how the cash payment to Iran was approved and delivered.
In an Oct. 24 response, Assistant Attorney General Peter Kadzik responded on Lynch’s behalf, refusing to answer the questions and informing the lawmakers that they are barred from publicly disclosing any details about the cash payment, which was bound up in a ransom deal aimed at freeing several American hostages from Iran.
The response from the attorney general’s office is “unacceptable” and provides evidence that Lynch has chosen to “essentially plead the fifth and refuse to respond to inquiries regarding [her] role in providing cash to the world’s foremost state sponsor of terrorism,” Rubio and Pompeo wrote on Friday in a follow-up letter to Lynch, according to a copy obtained by the Free Beacon.
The inquiry launched by the lawmakers is just one of several concurrent ongoing congressional probes aimed at unearthing a full accounting of the administration’s secret negotiations with Iran.
“It is frankly unacceptable that your department refuses to answer straightforward questions from the people’s elected representatives in Congress about an important national security issue,” the lawmakers wrote. “Your staff failed to address any of our questions, and instead provided a copy of public testimony and a lecture about the sensitivity of information associated with this issue.”
“As the United States’ chief law enforcement officer, it is outrageous that you would essentially plead the fifth and refuse to respond to inquiries,” they stated. “The actions of your department come at time when Iran continues to hold Americans hostage and unjustly sentence them to prison.”
The lawmakers included a copy of their previous 13 questions and are requesting that Lynch provide answers by Nov. 4.
When asked about Lynch’s efforts to avoid answering questions about the cash payment, Pompeo told the Free Beacon that the Obama administration has blocked Congress at every turn as lawmakers attempt to investigate the payments to Iran.
“Who knew that simple questions regarding Attorney General Lynch’s approval of billions of dollars in payments to Iran could be so controversial that she would refuse to answer them?” Pompeo said. “This has become the Obama administration’s coping mechanism for anything related to the Islamic Republic of Iran—hide information, obfuscate details, and deny answers to Congress and the American people.”
“They know this isn’t a sustainable strategy, however, and I trust they will start to take their professional, and moral, obligations seriously,” the lawmaker added.
In the Oct. 24 letter to Rubio and Pompeo, Assistant Attorney General Kadzik warned the lawmakers against disclosing to the public any information about the cash payment.
Details about the deal are unclassified, but are being kept under lock and key in a secure facility on Capitol Hill, the Free Beacon first disclosed. Lawmakers and staffers who have clearance to view the documents are forced to relinquish their cellular devices and are barred from taking any notes about what they see.
“Please note that these documents contain sensitive information that is not appropriate for public release,” Kadzik wrote to the lawmakers. “Disclosure of this information beyond members of the House and Senate and staff who are able to view them could adversely affect the diplomatic relations of the United States, including with key allies, as well as the State Department’s ability to defend [legal] claims against the United States [by Iran] that are still being litigated at the Hague Tribunal.”
“The public release of any portion of these documents, or the information contained therein, is not authorized by the transmittal of these documents or by this communication,” Kadzik wrote.
Congressional sources have told the Free Beacon that this is another part of the effort to hide details about these secret negotiations with Iran from the American public.
One senior congressional source familiar with both the secret documents and the inquiry into them told the Free Beacon that the details of the negotiations are so damning that the administration’s best strategy is to ignore lawmakers’ requests for more information.
“Every Obama administration official and department involved in the Iran Deal appear to be running for cover,” the source said. “Like we feared, the [Iran deal] is turning out to be a disaster and Iran is emboldened in its aggression. Evidently Attorney General Lynch and the Department of Justice have decided ‘refusal to cooperate’ is their best strategy. But this is dangerous and ultimately won’t protect them from anything.”
Update: The headline has been updated to more accurately characterize the story.
peplaw06
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Right? What are we supposed to do, just keep spending like drunken sailors until it eventually is unmanageable?
And if every Western country were in debt like we were, can you imagine how strong the dollar would be if we weren't under a mountain of debt?
theoneandonly
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Repening email investigating tied to Anthony Weiner investigation? Hillary get emailed some photos of little Anthony?
ThoughtExperiment
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Well first, I don't guess you were talking to me about the 20 trillion being no big deal? Because I never said that.
As for how it plays out, I have no idea. By all logic it won't end well. At some point we know it won't. However, you could have said the same thing 20+ years ago also, and nothing has happened yet. As long as people will buy our bonds and we can effectively print money, it can continue. Like I said, pretty much the entire developed world is in the same boat. IIRC we're actually around #10 or so in debt to GDP ratio, so many countries are worse off than we are. Japan is much worse. IMO we're going to follow their path and the path of the EU and continue to cut interest rates, even to a negative rate. It's a huge ponzi scheme but like I say, it's gone on forever now..
As for strengthening the dollar, we could do that in a heatbeat if we wanted to: Just raise interest rates. But we won't do that because it would hurt the economy. Most countries have been in that proverbial "race to the bottom" to weakening their currency anyway in order to make exports more appealing.
Original point stands though: No independent could do anything about it at this point anyway. What would they do?
yimyammer
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I'm afraid it already is.
My dad and I are both CPAs and we talk about this issue and it blows our minds. For example using the estimate of 20 trillion in total debt and a US population of 319 million means that every US citizen owes approximately $62,695.00. Of the total population, I suspect only 1/3rd pay any meaningful amount of taxes. Assuming this is accurate, then we can triple that figure and say every taxpaying American owes approximately $188,085 in US debt.
We haven't even talked about unfunded liabilities (the difference between the net present value of expected future government spending and the net present value of projected future tax revenue, particularly those associated with Social Security and Medicare.). Here's a quote from a 2014 Forbes article:
I find this terrifying and it confounds me how we have continued to kick the can down the road.
What is the breaking point where the US treasury can no longer sell bonds to China and other countries?
Will we ultimately default on those bonds?
If so, will that cause us to go to war with China?
Does the treasury start printing money on the down-low and slowly dilute the dollars value? Hell, this may be the best option IF they secretly pay off bonds and 100% stop spending more than is taken in from tax revenue (
, yeah, right!)How the fuck do we ever pay this off?
I don't think we can and no one wants to discuss it or hear about it because the reality is simply too painful or more likely too confusing.
Can you imagine a politician running on the notion that we are in deep shit, a world of pain is coming our way, so rather than wait on the inevitable shitstorm that is heading our way, let's take our punishment so we can get closer to fixing our problems?
Lol, yeah right, most people here probably can't even get through my reply so I'm sure everyone in the publics eyes would glaze over when hearing about this shit.
So we'll keep doing what we're doing and look the other way and kick the can down the road because that's what we do best.
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yimyammer
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real quick before I read the rest of your post, I never meant to imply you said the debt was no big deal. My question was in regard to your following statement:
yimyammer
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So true, I read the same type of gloom and doom observations 20+ years ago when I had just got out of college, yet here we are, more debt than ever and an economy (at least where I am in Dallas) booming as if we didn't have a care in the world.
It confounds me, I feel like I'm in the top 5% on the planet in understanding finance and accounting (probably higher, which isn't saying much other than most people are financially illiterate) but perhaps I look at things too black and white and cut and dry and somehow we can defy all financial logic and just keep heaping on the debt without consequence.
Like i said, it might shake up the 2-party system and be the beginning of meaningful change. Nothing but a catastrophe (or massive revolt by a coordinated and pissed off population, but we're all too busy for that) can fix this problem overnight. However, if a group of independent parties with no long term political aspirations, took over and made it a priority to tackle the debt and US infrastructure, then at least there might be some hope. You cant try to cure cancer if you dont know or acknowledge its existence.
But I'll fully admit, no one, independent or otherwise will likely address, much less, make a dent in the debt, so I guess all we can do is keep whistling through the graveyard.
yimyammer
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One thing a president can do is veto the shit out of everything.
Gary Johnson did this a lot when he was governor of New Mexico and pissed people off but people soon realized they couldn't come to the tax payers to fund stupid shit.
That indirectly helps address the debt by not taking on new liabilities and hopefully freeing up tax revenue to service our existing debt.
