Gil Brandt becomes Cowboys' 17th Hall of Famer

[dbair1967]

No shit numbnuts, but you do know that there was a point before that ‘89 draft that Jerry did not own the team right? Their season ended in December and from that point up until the sale of the team went through Brandt was working on the draft and Aikman was going to be their pick. In fact I recall that many people were upset because Jerry and Jimmy hinted that Aikman might not be their pick because Jimmy wanted his QB from Miami (Walsh) who he ended up taking in the Supplemental draft with a 1st. So again, yes Brandt gets credit for Aikman since he had made it clear that’s who he would have taken.

Good grief

 

[dbair1967]

I’m just making sure the man is getting credit for what he did. You’re the one making it sound as if his bad drafts in the 80’s should discredit everything he did for this organization. Everyone knows he made some bad picks during that time but he also revolutionize the whole draft process and found/drafted numerous Hall of Famers and several that probably should be Hall of Famers.

They don't discredit what he did, but he was a massive failure as someone who ran the draft during the 78-87 time period.

 

[dbair1967]

Go back and read my original message I say that exact same thing. Everyone and their momma knew Aikman was going first. Doesn’t mean Gil shouldn’t get credit for wanting Aikman. If you’re saying he shouldn’t get credit for wanting Aikman just because he was the #1 obvious choice then you have to lump Jimmy into the same category.

Again ass-hat, Jimmy made up his own mind. If for whatever reason Jimmy would have woke up and been an idiot and not picked Aikman, it would have been HIS decision. He didn't pick Aikman because of Gil Brandt.

So no dipshit, Gil Brandt does not get credit for drafting Aikman.

 

[dbair1967]

Like I said, he did have some bad drafts late in his Cowboys career but he also had some good picks during that time and his overall body of work is definitely HOF worthy.

Once upon a time in the 90's after Jimmy left Jerry drafted Larry Allen, Randall Godfrey and a few others. It doesn't forgive his monumental failure as a GM from 94-2001 (especially those years) because the blind squirrel found a nut.

Brandt was THE cutting edge draft guru from 61-77, but after that he was also as lousy as anyone in the NFL.

 

[MrB]

Again ass-hat, Jimmy made up his own mind. If for whatever reason Jimmy would have woke up and been an idiot and not picked Aikman, it would have been HIS decision. He didn't pick Aikman because of Gil Brandt.

So no dipshit, Gil Brandt does not get credit for drafting Aikman.

Where did I say Jimmy picked Aikman because of Brandt? All I said was that Aikman was going to be Brandt’s pick too.

 

[dbair1967]

Where did I say Jimmy picked Aikman because of Brandt? All I said was that Aikman was going to be Brandt’s pick too.

You said Brandt deserved credit for picking Aikman:

Aikman was the clear cut choice #1. There was already talk that the Cowboys were going to take him with the top pick so yes Gil Brandt gets credit that too.

 

[bbgun]

Bill Polian gets credit for choosing Manning over Leaf. Brandt/Jimmy were presented with no such dilemma.

 

[MrB]

Once upon a time in the 90's after Jimmy left Jerry drafted Larry Allen, Randall Godfrey and a few others. It doesn't forgive his monumental failure as a GM from 94-2001 (especially those years) because the blind squirrel found a nut.

Brandt was THE cutting edge draft guru from 61-77, but after that he was also as lousy as anyone in the NFL.

Again I disagree that he was lousy. In addition to the draft he brought in other players that were major contributors to those 90’s teams that won Super Bowls. Do the names Mark Tuinei, Nate Newton, and Kevin Gogan ring a bell? All 3 were key parts to those 90’s OL’s that were so dominant. How about Chad Hennings, Kelvin Martin and oh yea Michael Irvin (again)? All guys brought in or drafted by Gil Brandt in the mid-late 80’s. Not to mention Herschel Walker. Did he miss on a lot of picks? Sure he did but he wasn’t lousy.

 

[MrB]

You said Brandt deserved credit for picking Aikman:

Because Aikman was going to be the pick even if Brandt had stayed.

 

[dbair1967]

Bill Polian gets credit for choosing Manning over Leaf. Brandt/Jimmy were presented with no such dilemma.

At the time, some idiots like Lou Holtz were ridiculing Johnson for picking Aikman over Tony Mandarich.

Also, Sport magazine ran a horrendous hit job on Aikman and the Cowboys that draft, and said "Tim Rossenbach and Rodney Peete will both be better than Troy Aikman, YOU'LL SEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

[MrB]

Bill Polian gets credit for choosing Manning over Leaf. Brandt/Jimmy were presented with no such dilemma.

Not to that extent, you’re definitely right about that. Jimmy did have a hard on for his QB from Miami though and wasted a #1 on him in the supplemental draft when he already had Aikman in hand. That pick ended up being the #2 overall pick. Jimmy did make up for it though by trading Walsh for a 1st and a 3rd.

 

[MrB]

At the time, some idiots like Lou Holtz were ridiculing Johnson for picking Aikman over Tony Mandarich.

Also, Sport magazine ran a horrendous hit job on Aikman and the Cowboys that draft, and said "Tim Rossenbach and Rodney Peete will both be better than Troy Aikman, YOU'LL SEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

That was just idiotic. Any monkey could see that Aikman was the superior prospect over any of those guys. Peete was really good before his achilles injury but he didn’t have Aikman’s are, size, or accuracy. Aikman was the prototype for the style of play at the time and best prospect since Elway.

 

[dbair1967]

Again I disagree that he was lousy. In addition to the draft he brought in other players that were major contributors to those 90’s teams that won Super Bowls. Do the names Mark Tuinei, Nate Newton, and Kevin Gogan ring a bell? All 3 were key parts to those 90’s OL’s that were so dominant. How about Chad Hennings, Kelvin Martin and oh yea Michael Irvin (again)? All guys brought in or drafted by Gil Brandt in the mid-late 80’s. Not to mention Herschel Walker. Did he miss on a lot of picks? Sure he did but he wasn’t lousy.

They didn't even sign Tuinei to be an OL, in college he was a DL and when he first signed as a UDFA here he was a DL. Newton was a washout from the Redskins and the USFL and Gogan was also a nobody. They became good players because of Jimmy Johnson and Tony Wise (the OL coach, who was brilliant). If not for them, you'd have never heard of any of those guys.

You need to go back and look at each and everyone of those drafts from 78-87. I'll give Brandt (or someone) credit for 1988, they got Irvin, Norton and Hennings that draft after a decade of utter failure.

 

[dbair1967]

Not to that extent, you’re definitely right about that. Jimmy did have a hard on for his QB from Miami though and wasted a #1 on him in the supplemental draft when he already had Aikman in hand. That pick ended up being the #2 overall pick. Jimmy did make up for it though by trading Walsh for a 1st and a 3rd.

He didn't have a hard on for Steve Walsh.

He tells everyone exactly why he picked Walsh, because the first thing he learned after studying the NFL was the importance of having a great QB. There was no salary cap then, so he was getting a chance on a talent-less roster to have two guys viewed as potential franchise QB's, and he felt like that increased his chances of hitting on one.

In camp as a rookie, Aikman easily beat out the guy you say Jimmy had a hard on for. Despite not winning a game and then having Walsh win 1, Aikman went right back into the starting lineup as a rookie after he got health (Walsh started for 5 games when Aikman was hurt). Walsh was then traded the next season.

 

[MrB]

They didn't even sign Tuinei to be an OL, in college he was a DL and when he first signed as a UDFA here he was a DL. Newton was a washout from the Redskins and the USFL and Gogan was also a nobody. They became good players because of Jimmy Johnson and Tony Wise (the OL coach, who was brilliant). If not for them, you'd have never heard of any of those guys.

You need to go back and look at each and everyone of those drafts from 78-87. I'll give Brandt (or someone) credit for 1988, they got Irvin, Norton and Hennings that draft after a decade of utter failure.

Jimmy and his coaches definitely coached those guys up, no doubt about that. Brandt saw the talent though and brought them in. Newton should be in the HOF in my opinion.

 

[bbgun]

Again I disagree that he was lousy. In addition to the draft he brought in other players that were major contributors to those 90’s teams that won Super Bowls. Do the names Mark Tuinei, Nate Newton, and Kevin Gogan ring a bell? All 3 were key parts to those 90’s OL’s that were so dominant. How about Chad Hennings, Kelvin Martin and oh yea Michael Irvin (again)? All guys brought in or drafted by Gil Brandt in the mid-late 80’s. Not to mention Herschel Walker. Did he miss on a lot of picks? Sure he did but he wasn’t lousy.

HATER. You forgot Jeffcoat. ?

 

[bbgun]

We got a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for Walsh. In retrospect, it was a stupid move, seeing as how we ended up with the #1 pick again. Good thing we suckered the Saints.

 

[dbair1967]

HATER. You forgot Jeffcoat. ?

Jeffcoast. good player and great leader for long time. Certainly was one of Brandt's better picks from 78 on.

Of course we took him instead of Dan Marino, and rode out the rest of the 80's with rag arm Danny White, flub Hogeboom and flub Pelluer.

 

[bbgun]

The Hogeboom era got off to a great start against the Rams in '84. Laser passes all over the field. Not sure what his problem was (reading defenses?), but he couldn't sustain it.

 

[MrB]

HATER. You forgot Jeffcoat.

I knew there was a DL I was leaving out!