Jones says Garrett making all decisions on staff

[superpunk]

Theres a chance, sure. Like one in a million.

I think Garrett is somewhat involved. I think he wanted Ryan gone, for example.

But I don't thikn Garrett is or has been on board with everything. Don't think he wanted his brother gone. Don't think he wanted to shelve playcalling. Just two examples.

Well at this point, with everything Jones has said publicly that he doesn't do, and that other people are doing, Jones is getting almost zero credit for building a team by his own admission.

Parcells and Wade, Ireland, and everyone else who's been through here has had the opportunity to say he's full of shit, but hasn't. Instead they've all spoken highly of him.

Now whatever we're doing obviously doesn't work at all. But I don't see why we have to assume he's lying.

 

[Midswat]

Well at this point, with everything Jones has said publicly that he doesn't do, and that other people are doing, Jones is getting almost zero credit for building a team by his own admission.

Parcells and Wade, Ireland, and everyone else who's been through here has had the opportunity to say he's full of shit, but hasn't. Instead they've all spoken highly of him.

Now whatever we're doing obviously doesn't work at all. But I don't see why we have to assume he's lying.

I can think of like never anyone leaving a job in the NFL for whatever reason and talking shit or speaking ill.

Maye Lane Kiffin/Al Davis is the only example.

So I'm not suprised that none of his former employees have trashed him.

I think Parcells "you won't even know I was here" comment is/was telling though.

 

[UVAwahoos]

Well at this point, with everything Jones has said publicly that he doesn't do, and that other people are doing, Jones is getting almost zero credit for building a team by his own admission.

Parcells and Wade, Ireland, and everyone else who's been through here has had the opportunity to say he's full of shit, but hasn't. Instead they've all spoken highly of him.

Now whatever we're doing obviously doesn't work at all. But I don't see why we have to assume he's lying.

Reads like a dumber version of an Idgit post.

 

[superpunk]

I can think of like never anyone leaving a job in the NFL for whatever reason and talking shit or speaking ill.

Maye Lane Kiffin/Al Davis is the only example.

So I'm not suprised that none of his former employees have trashed him.

I think Parcells "you won't even know I was here" comment is/was telling though.

He didn't just say that, he has spoken glowingly of his time working with Jerry.

Again, we're just assuming that EVERYONE is lying based on our preconceptions. Jimmy and co. trashed the shit out of Jerry, that's how we know how things went down back then. Alot of people have run through here since then, why do we just default to disbelieving what they have to say?

That doesn't address the point that Jerry has basically stripped himself of all credit here with his own words. And yet we still insist that he's completely motivated by the need to get credit for our success, and that he's calling all the shots. I'm just saying the picture of the egomaniacal control freak who craves attention and credit while at the same time constantly downplays his role in the organization doesn't make alot of sense. Maybe he's telling the truth?

Ultimately it doesn't matter, because nothing we've done works. And it won't matter if it starts working either, because we'll just be happy and who cares who gets credit?

 

[bbgun]

I can think of like never anyone leaving a job in the NFL for whatever reason and talking shit or speaking ill.

Maye Lane Kiffin/Al Davis is the only example.

So I'm not suprised that none of his former employees have trashed him.

I think Parcells "you won't even know I was here" comment is/was telling though.

Exactly. It's called "professional courtesy." You don't remain viable in this league by burning bridges or publicly slamming previous employers. I take all public comments by players, coaches and front office types with a grain of salt.

 

[superpunk]

Yeah Parcells, a guy who skewered the shit out of Kraft (criticized him for being a meddling owner who wanted to be involved even though he knew nothing about football) when he left NE, is super worried about professional courtesy. Especially now that he's probably never going to look for another NFL job.

 

[bbgun]

Jerry was desperate when he hired Tuna. He could have hung Kraft in effigy and he still would have received the Dallas job. The fact that Bill has never publicly skewered Jerry for sticking him with TO kinda makes my point.

 

[UVAwahoos]

There are countless examples of JJ lying through his teeth for one reason or another at this point. Jimmy has called him out on it bc he's one of the few who has come through Dallas and had no further aspirations to work in the league ever again.

Considering the rapid front office, coaching and player turnover, it's really idiotic to blast any organization and these guys know it.

JJ's interests are business first. The guy wants to sell season tickets and he wants another Super Bowl here. That's why he was fairly quiet when we got killed with cap penalties. They hurt our team this season but it didnt matter. The last thing JJ was going to do is lash out and upset the same owners who vote on Super Bowl sites.

EVERYTHING he says sober and planned is calculated around money. The team's success is a distant third on his priority list. I have 20 solid years of evidence as proof.

 

[superpunk]

Jerry was desperate when he hired Tuna. He could have hung Kraft in effigy and he still would have received the Dallas job. The fact that Bill has never publicly skewered Jerry for sticking him with TO kinda makes my point.

So you guys are effectively saying that not only is Jerry lying to make himself look good, but everyone who's worked for him since Jimmy is also lying in order to protect their prospects in the league - even ones with a history of skewering owners who will never look for a job in the league again? Why should I believe that?

From the time Kraft overruled Parcells and took Terry Glenn til they split you knew there was a problem. Once Parcells got out it all came out.

It's like conspiracy theorists. Fucking truthers want me to believe that EVERYONE who was involved with this shit is lying for the sake of the cover up? Why should I believe that? Isn't the simpler answer that everyone is telling the truth, things work just like they say they do, we just suck? Why do we also have to believe the Jerry is a lying control freak business?

 

[bbgun]

So you guys are effectively saying that not only is Jerry lying to make himself look good, but everyone who's worked for him since Jimmy is also lying in order to protect their prospects in the league - even ones with a history of skewering owners who will never look for a job in the league again? Why should I believe that?

Because Jimmy publicly stated last year that Jerry lied about his role in constructing those championship teams. Were you asleep during that controversy? Lesser coaching talents (Gailey, Wade, Campo) need to "play nice" about their tenure in Dallas so as not to turn off potential employers. Conversely, Jimmy had nothing to lose.

 

[superpunk]

We've already tabled the Jimmy/Jerry relationship. That isn't what I asked.

 

[Midswat]

So you guys are effectively saying that not only is Jerry lying to make himself look good, but everyone who's worked for him since Jimmy is also lying in order to protect their prospects in the league - even ones with a history of skewering owners who will never look for a job in the league again? Why should I believe that?

From the time Kraft overruled Parcells and took Terry Glenn til they split you knew there was a problem. Once Parcells got out it all came out.

It's like conspiracy theorists. Fucking truthers want me to believe that EVERYONE who was involved with this shit is lying for the sake of the cover up? Why should I believe that? Isn't the simpler answer that everyone is telling the truth, things work just like they say they do, we just suck? Why do we also have to believe the Jerry is a lying control freak business?

I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

I've only stated what I believe to be true.

If Jerry has earned your trust, then so be it.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

So you guys are effectively saying that not only is Jerry lying to make himself look good, but everyone who's worked for him since Jimmy is also lying in order to protect their prospects in the league - even ones with a history of skewering owners who will never look for a job in the league again? Why should I believe that?

From the time Kraft overruled Parcells and took Terry Glenn til they split you knew there was a problem. Once Parcells got out it all came out.

It's like conspiracy theorists. Fucking truthers want me to believe that EVERYONE who was involved with this shit is lying for the sake of the cover up? Why should I believe that? Isn't the simpler answer that everyone is telling the truth, things work just like they say they do, we just suck? Why do we also have to believe the Jerry is a lying control freak business?

Well, keeping your mouth shut isn't the same as lying.

And those truther websites? They claim Jerry never lies.

 

[superpunk]

I'm asking why you believe that to be true?

It's the tougher default position, as all conspiracy theories are, because they require that EVERYONE be lying. And not only lying, but keeping quiet forever so the truth never gets out.

The stories we hear now aren't conflicting, and we haven't had anyone since Jimmy and co. come out with anything that would make you believe that what you guys think is true. So why stick with that perception? Why not just take what they're saying at face value and say "ok, we suck, but it's just because we suck not because Jones is a meddling control freak antichrist."

 

[Everlastingxxx]

All good liars mix a little truth into it. I think Jerry is pushing Garrett into a direction and letting him make some of the smaller choices or making him believe he is. If Jerry can make Garrett fire his own brother, then he can make him do anything. Jerry could make Garrett wear a thong but let him pick the color and style.

 

[UVAwahoos]

The picture of a coach in complete control of his team.

 

[bbgun]

So are we supposed to believe that John Garrett voluntarily left a great job working for his brother? Red was cool with his departure?

 

[superpunk]

Either answer the questions I've asked or shut up.

 

[Midswat]

But your question is stupid.

 

[superpunk]

My question destroys your world, which is why you won't answer it. Because there is no answer. You're believing what you want to believe to fit your perception. I'm just asking for you to make a convincing argument.