JBond

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Lets test it on Obama's kids and all the children of the people on the panel first.

The presidential ethics panel has opened the door to testing an anthrax vaccine on children as young as infants, bringing an angry response from critics who say the children would be guinea pigs in a study that would never help them and might harm them.

The presidential bioethics panel conceded that "there is no prospect of direct benefit to children" who participate in an anthrax-vaccine study, Gutmann said. According to the biodefense board, children in such a study would face more than minimal risk (defined as a risk no greater than that in daily life or at a check-up), mostly because the side effects of the vaccine in children are unknown.

In the largest study of the anthrax vaccine, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported in 2008 that in 1,563 adults who received the vaccine, there were 229 "serious adverse events" such as cardiovascular disease, intracranial aneurysm and seizure.

Under a 2005 law, children in an anthrax-vaccine study would be prohibited from seeking damages through the legal system. The presidential commission, said Gutmann, "strongly recommended that a plan be in place to compensate any children" who are harmed.

Who runs this wonderful little company? A democrat. Fuad El-Hibri. $62,000 in donations last year. Got to grease those wheels.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/19/us-anthrax-vaccine-children-idUSBRE92I03220130319
 
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JBond

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Both sides are the same way.

Pay to play is on both sides. Your will go no argument out of me on that. The system is broken. The part that bugs me is the crap the dems spout about how they care more. That of course is complete bull shit. They are all about the Benjamins. I understand it is good business for them to lie about it, but some on this forum actually believe it.
 
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Two party system is what is wrong with this country. We need to do away with it , or we will never accomplish anything. The rhetoric that is supplied by both sides never solves anything. The tags/label of conservative/liberal and the people who cling to them like they are a badge of honor are also part of the problem.
 

Hoofbite

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Two party system is what is wrong with this country. We need to do away with it , or we will never accomplish anything. The rhetoric that is supplied by both sides never solves anything. The tags/label of conservative/liberal and the people who cling to them like they are a badge of honor are also part of the problem.

BINGO!

Jesse Ventura is an absolute nut but I heard him say one time that he loves the two party system because it provides one more option than Communist China. Sarcasm of course but dead on.
 

iceberg

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so then what?

we complain a system that has founded this nation and built it to where it is today is suddenly the problem?

maybe *we the people* are cause we bicker over things that don't matter. maybe we've always done that.

the point isn't and should never be what side to take. the point should be, how do we connect the sides. we've all gotten so busy saying our side is better than your side that we fail to understand we're just 1 side. ying and yang celebrates the differences to a degree. we should too. we should quit proving our side is right and try to understand why the other side is right also.

the divide we see is the divide we allow to be put there. nothing more.
 

iceberg

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sorry. you said to do away with what got us this far.

i was looking for alternatives, or at least reasons behind such a statement.
 

Hoofbite

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so then what?

we complain a system that has founded this nation and built it to where it is today is suddenly the problem?

maybe *we the people* are cause we bicker over things that don't matter. maybe we've always done that.

the point isn't and should never be what side to take. the point should be, how do we connect the sides. we've all gotten so busy saying our side is better than your side that we fail to understand we're just 1 side. ying and yang celebrates the differences to a degree. we should too. we should quit proving our side is right and try to understand why the other side is right also.

the divide we see is the divide we allow to be put there. nothing more.

To say the current state of the system is anything close to the founding version of it is like saying the Model T is the same as a Lambo.

The system is currently broken. Doesn't mean it can't be fixed to work as intended and to work as it should. What is deemed to be in the best interest of the country is often whatever brings in the most money for the politicians themselves. You have people who do nothing but get into office and sell their support to the highest bidder, making a career out of being a vote for sale.

I would agree with you that figuring out a way to diminish left vs. right would go a long way in improving things. I think idea that someone can be solely one or the other is ridiculous. You have so many people in the US from a variety of backgrounds yet you're telling me that just on natural inclination a huge portion happens to hold the same beliefs while an equally huge portion holds beliefs that are almost directly opposed? I don't buy it. I think there are some issues where people would naturally fall further to the left or to the right than their constituents but because they identify as one or the other they automatically are expected to take the position of that party.

And no doubt the people are just as much to blame. I'm convinced a significant portion of the voting population is uninformed. I would say a small minority could actually describe each candidate's position and an even smaller portion could understand exactly what that position entailed. Most people don't even need the months of buildup because they can tell you who they would vote for before the candidates are even announced. I think the idea of blindly supporting either party is ridiculous and straight ticket voting is a bigger disservice to democracy than not voting at all. There's no way anyone could tell me that one party holds all of the best candidates from top to bottom in every election yet people go into the booths and check off based on whether or not an "R" or "D" is following the candidates name.

The idea that either party is more to blame for any specific topic is just foolish. The House, Senate and Presidency has bounced back and forth from Republican to Democrate numerous times over the past however many years you choose to look at. Both parties are equally responsible and yet the entire political climate is nothing more than a finger pointing contest. FOX News and MSNBC are likely two of the most guilty entities in terms of blaming one side or the other. They both spew shit left and right and people are willing to gobble it up. It's almost shocking how much faith people actually have in their political party. The vast majority of the hard cores could list off just about every stumble, perceived or real, that the opposition has racked up in the last few years yet they couldn't come up with a list half that long for the party they are more intimately familiar with.

The system caters to people who are intellectually lazy and who get the fat majority of their political information via chain emails. Anyone who reads a chain email or Facebook post and doesn't automatically think about fact checking it for themselves is a fucking moron.

The people are to blame but the blame can only go so far because the politicians could easily put an end to all the bullshit by not condoning it. But they don't and it's likely because it's in their interest to keep the bullshit flowing. As long you keep people pissed and determined not to let the country "go to ruin" you keep your voting numbers up while also keeping people distracted.
 

JBond

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Hoof, I have very little faith in either party. I think you know that. I am a small government guy and neither party seems inclined to give up the power they have created for themselves. I tend to vote for those that at least say they will not infringe on my rights that are guaranteed by our Constitution while the other side ignores the Constitution much of the time. The left loves to point blame at Bush, but the reality is most conservatives did not want Bush. Bush and Obama are virtually the same man.

I would love to hear some solutions. How do we get out of this mess? I for one believe limiting the money would go a long way. A max of a $1000 contribution for individuals. That is it. No other form of supporting politicians should be legal. No money from unions or companies or bundling or random untraceable credit cards or donations from foreign countries.
 
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I agree about the donations.

That conservative bullshit label has to stop along with the liberal label. It does nothing but push biased agendas with no real solutions.
 
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sorry. you said to do away with what got us this far.

i was looking for alternatives, or at least reasons behind such a statement.
I may not have said what I was thinking correctly. I think we need to make it easier for political discourse. IMO we only have two sides and there is no room for anything else. I don't believe that having just republicans and democrats is moving our country forward. The two sides are so steeped in their own rhetoric there is little room for another point of view. The rhetoric drives the agenda and nothing gets done. (If that makes sense)
 

iceberg

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I may not have said what I was thinking correctly. I think we need to make it easier for political discourse. IMO we only have two sides and there is no room for anything else. I don't believe that having just republicans and democrats is moving our country forward. The two sides are so steeped in their own rhetoric there is little room for another point of view. The rhetoric drives the agenda and nothing gets done. (If that makes sense)

unfortunately, it makes far too much sense. :)
 

jeebus

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We need a new party to devour one of the old parties, and then the other party will adapt to meet this new challenge. If it all works right. But sh1t takes a while.
 
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