The TE spot looking a little shaky behind Witten

theoneandonly · May 14, 2017

Cowboys coach Jason Garrett said tight ends Geoff Swaim and James Hanna, who are recovering from foot and knee surgeries, respectively,will not see much or any time during the organized team activities and June minicamp. The plan is to have them ready for the start of training camp in July. Their rehab will give Rico Gathers more snaps in practice to potentially earn a spot.

Todd Archer, ESPN Staff Writer

theoneandonly · May 14, 2017

So you have Witten who thought about retiring and is no threat after the catch. Then you have a power forward from Baylor. Hanna who hasnt done anything in almost a year after a "bone bruise" and had surgery, probably microfracture. Swaim who still hasnt recovered from surgery to repair a broken bone in his foot, and some UDFA from Oklahoma St. Looks like they'll be eying the guys on the street in August.

Scot · May 14, 2017

If you read the articles on the Cowboys apps and listen to the podcasts Rico Gathers would appear to be the second coming of Christ

Michael Irvin apparently said he looked like the Greek god Zeus

Don't worry guys, we are in the midst of greatness! We don't need #82 when we have Rico Gathers

theoneandonly · May 14, 2017

Scot said:
If you read the articles on the Cowboys apps and listen to the podcasts Rico Gathers would appear to be the second coming of Chris

There are a lot of legends every year.......... until the pads come on.

cmd34 · May 14, 2017

I'm excited and hopeful about Gathers.

If he busts, TE goes towards the top of the draft wishlist next year.

Hanna is made of paper and Swaim is Zone Legend aka JAG.

theoneandonly · May 14, 2017

cmd34 said:
I'm excited and hopeful about Gathers.

Jerry seems to hit on a long shot about once a decade. Romo was one, and then a decade later looks like Dak. Seems a stretch to go from not having played football since eighth grade to productive NFL player. Call me a skeptic until proven otherwise. Jerry has not proven to be smarter than the average GM in over twenty years.

MrB · May 14, 2017

Scot said:
If you read the articles on the Cowboys apps and listen to the podcasts Rico Gathers would appear to be the second coming of Christ

Michael Irvin apparently said he looked like the Greek god Zeus

Don't worry guys, we are in the midst of greatness! We don't need #82 when we have Rico Gathers

Haha I was thinking that exact same thing. This is an exact contrast to what the team blowhards have been saying.

MrB · May 14, 2017

cmd34 said:
I'm excited and hopeful about Gathers.

If he busts, TE goes towards the top of the draft wishlist next year.

Hanna is made of paper and Swaim is Zone Legend aka JAG.

LB and TE will likely be at the top of the list.

Scot · May 15, 2017

MrB said:
LB and TE will likely be at the top of the list.

Don't forget DE

the ones we "had" can't keep from getting high and getting suspended for an entire season or for the rest of their career

So we will need to "fill that need" for the 12th season in a row

cmd34 · May 15, 2017

theoneandonly said:
Jerry seems to hit on a long shot about once a decade. Romo was one, and then a decade later looks like Dak. Seems a stretch to go from not having played football since eighth grade to productive NFL player. Call me a skeptic until proven otherwise. Jerry has not proven to be smarter than the average GM in over twenty years.

Antonio Gates and Darren Fells made similar transitions. Fells was like 30 when he made the move.

cmd34 · May 15, 2017

Scot said:
Don't forget DE

the ones we "had" can't keep from getting high and getting suspended for an entire season or for the rest of their career

So we will need to "fill that need" for the 12th season in a row

and Safety. Heath sucks and who knows if Frazier or Woods (both 6th rounders) are legit.

MrB · May 15, 2017

cmd34 said:
and Safety. Heath sucks and who knows if Frazier or Woods (both 6th rounders) are legit.

I don't think Safety will be at the top of the list. I would think they would look for one in the middle rounds. LB, TE, and DE are all bigger needs.

cmd34 · May 15, 2017

MrB said:
I don't think Safety will be at the top of the list. I would think they would look for one in the middle rounds. LB, TE, and DE are all bigger needs.

One of these years, fans (and hopefully the Cowboys) are going to learn. This is a passing league. You keep putting sub-par guys on the back end of your defense, you will get exploited by the deep ball, and you will keep losing games when it matters.

MrB · May 15, 2017

cmd34 said:
One of these years, fans (and hopefully the Cowboys) are going to learn. This is a passing league. You keep putting sub-par guys on the back end of your defense, you will get exploited by the deep ball, and you will keep losing games when it matters.

You build an elite front 7 and the entire secondary will be better. Also how do we know any of the guys they just drafted are sub par? Anthony Brown isn't sub par, at least he didn't play that way last year.

Doomsday · May 15, 2017

MrB said:
You build an elite front 7 and the entire secondary will be better.

Not if they're gassed late in the 4th quarter because your coach doesn't understand the game. No pass rush late means you absolutely need to have a great secondary. It really doesn't matter much the sacks and pressures you get early in games. It's all about crunch time in this league. The last 5 minutes of clock time.

MrB · May 16, 2017

Doomsday said:
Not if they're gassed late in the 4th quarter because your coach doesn't understand the game. No pass rush late means you absolutely need to have a great secondary. It really doesn't matter much the sacks and pressures you get early in games. It's all about crunch time in this league. The last 5 minutes of clock time.

If you have an elite front 7 and an elite pass rush I would expect they'd be able to get pressure in crunch time. If they're not then they're not elite. If you're getting pressure and making the QB scramble and make quick decisions while he's tired he's going to make mistakes. Even average CB's have had great careers when they've had en elite front 7 in front of them.

Doomsday · May 16, 2017

MrB said:
If you have an elite front 7 and an elite pass rush I would expect they'd be able to get pressure in crunch time.

Reasonable expectation, IF they are in shape and well conditioned. We haven't seen THAT in Dallas since Jimmy left.

MrB said:
If you're getting pressure and making the QB scramble and make quick decisions while he's tired he's going to make mistakes. Even average CB's have had great careers when they've had en elite front 7 in front of them.

Meanwhile we see it every year, teams WITH elite front 7s getting torched anyway, because of their suspect secondary.

To me it is a myth that a secondary is better because of a 'elite' front 7. It might LOOK better at times and overall statistically, but the meter is late in games where the suspect secondary gets torched anyway. They're not any better players, their abilities don't suddenly grow, their faults are masked, hidden for a time by the play of the front end. And even that isn't consistent, it's not a natural law. Plus you simply leave out the facts when the opposite is true - ever heard of coverage sacks? When the secondary simply gives the QB nowhere to put the ball, and he has to eat it.

You simply cannot get away with a bunch of slow dummies back in the secondary. A bunch of nit wits who can't even CATCH the picks that do get delivered to them. And who keep making all of the same mistakes because their idiot coaching teaches them to 'have a short memory' instead of fucking LEARNING from mistakes.

MrB · May 16, 2017

Doomsday said:
Reasonable expectation, IF they are in shape and well conditioned. We haven't seen THAT in Dallas since Jimmy left.
Meanwhile we see it every year, teams WITH elite front 7s getting torched anyway, because of their suspect secondary.

To me it is a myth that a secondary is better because of a 'elite' front 7. It might LOOK better at times and overall statistically, but the meter is late in games where the suspect secondary gets torched anyway. They're not any better players, their abilities don't suddenly grow, their faults are masked, hidden for a time by the play of the front end. And even that isn't consistent, it's not a natural law. Plus you simply leave out the facts when the opposite is true - ever heard of coverage sacks? When the secondary simply gives the QB nowhere to put the ball, and he has to eat it.

You simply cannot get away with a bunch of slow dummies back in the secondary. A bunch of nit wits who can't even CATCH the picks that do get delivered to them. And who keep making all of the same mistakes because their idiot coaching teaches them to 'have a short memory' instead of fucking LEARNING from mistakes.

I should make myself a little clear. I'm not suggesting you can throw a bunch scrub ass CB's that all run over 5.0 in the 40 and expect to be successful but NFL History is littered with CB's who had great careers and were all drafted in the middle to late rounds. Hell Larry Brown was drafted in what the 12th round. Josh Norman, and Richard Sherman were also mid/late round picks.

cmd34 · May 16, 2017

MrB said:
You build an elite front 7 and the entire secondary will be better.

This had been the correct thinking for years. The NFL hasn't really gone full-Spread Offense like college teams have but it has had an impact on NFL offenses. Look at Matt Ryan and Tom Brady. They get rid of the ball so quick now that the pass rush has very little impact. There are still guys like Aaron Rodgers and Cam Newton who move the pocket, where that pass rush is needed, but you have to have talent on the back end of the defense. You have to be able to cover guys and you must have a competent deep safety.

Doomsday · May 16, 2017

MrB said:
NFL History is littered with CB's who had great careers and were all drafted in the middle to late rounds.

NFL history is littered with players of ALL positions, who had great careers and were all drafted in the middle to late rounds. It's not limited to CBs and it's not even mostly CBs. Spurious argument.

What CMD is saying is right. You cannot, today, get away with having a elite front 7 and a suspect backend. It's simply not that league anymore.

Ideally to me, you want competent defensive players at all positions and at least one superstar in both your front and back ends.

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