Cowboy coaching thread

dbair1967 · Jan 8, 2018

Doomsday said:
I've been wrong on stuff before and don't at all mind being corrected but let me explain how I come to my conclusions on these defensive coaches and their preferences.

First thing I look at is the team roster. 3-4 guys always have a lot more linebackers on the roster than they do defensive linemen. There's fewer linebackers in a 4-3 guy's roster. That's true of Oakland right now and for the last several years. It's a 3-4 but they use 4 guys with their hands on the turf, for first down and other obvious running downs. But it is 3-4 type personnel and it's 3 down linemen most of the time, you'll see it during games.

Would we all agree Wade Phillips is a 3-4 guy? Sure we would, but what's this shit of the Rams running a 4-3? In the starter intros on TV, sure enough they show 4 linemen starting, and only 3 linebackers. But that's because they always START that way, on 1st down! Wade is the consummate, confirmed, dedicated 3-4 guy and his Rams defense is a 3-4 and it is also personnelled that way too. He's got 10 linebackers and only 6 defensive linemen. Versus our 9 d-linemen and only 5 linebackers.

Next I look at the TYPE of players he has. Does he have traditional linebackers or does he have more of the hybrid, "stand-up defensive end" type?

I also look at the philosophy they've displayed and also through what they have said in the past.

I'm pretty sure Del Rio and Norton are 3-4 guys. Just like Wade is. But they all pretty much have 4 guys with their hands on the turf on presumed run downs, and they all have a lot more linebackers than d-linemen on the roster when they have their say in the matter.

Could be wrong though, wouldn't be the first time.

They're not 3-4 guys Dooms. Move on.

Doomsday · Jan 8, 2018

dbair1967 said:
They're not 3-4 guys Dooms. Move on.

Wade too?

English Cowboy · Jan 8, 2018

dbair1967 said:
Norton and Del Rio are both 4-3 guys Dooms. I don't know that either has ever implemented a 3-4 anywhere they've coached.

And most recently in Oakland, they played a 4-3.

Doomsday said:
I've been wrong on stuff before and don't at all mind being corrected but let me explain how I come to my conclusions on these defensive coaches and their preferences.

First thing I look at is the team roster. 3-4 guys always have a lot more linebackers on the roster than they do defensive linemen. There's fewer linebackers in a 4-3 guy's roster. That's true of Oakland right now and for the last several years. It's a 3-4 but they use 4 guys with their hands on the turf, for first down and other obvious running downs. But it is 3-4 type personnel and it's 3 down linemen most of the time, you'll see it during games.

Would we all agree Wade Phillips is a 3-4 guy? Sure we would, but what's this shit of the Rams running a 4-3? In the starter intros on TV, sure enough they show 4 linemen starting, and only 3 linebackers. But that's because they always START that way, on 1st down! Wade is the consummate, confirmed, dedicated 3-4 guy and his Rams defense is a 3-4 and it is also personnelled that way too. He's got 10 linebackers and only 6 defensive linemen. Versus our 9 d-linemen and only 5 linebackers.

Next I look at the TYPE of players he has. Does he have traditional linebackers or does he have more of the hybrid, "stand-up defensive end" type?

I also look at the philosophy they've displayed and also through what they have said in the past.

I'm pretty sure Del Rio and Norton are 3-4 guys. Just like Wade is. But they all pretty much have 4 guys with their hands on the turf on presumed run downs, and they all have a lot more linebackers than d-linemen on the roster when they have their say in the matter.

Could be wrong though, wouldn't be the first time.

dbair1967 said:
They're not 3-4 guys Dooms. Move on.

Just been on Pro Football Reference. The Oakland Raiders 2016 page says they ran a 4-3, their 2017 page says they ran a 3-4.

dbair1967 · Jan 8, 2018

Doomsday said:
Wade too?

I didn't pay any attention to Wade's team this yr, have no idea what they did.

But Del Rio and Norton are career 4-3 coaches who have always run 4-3 systems. Norton coached under Pete Carroll's 4-3 in Seattle and was hired in Oakland to run that style of defense. Del Rio is a 4-3 guy and ran 4-3 defenses everywhere he's been.

That said, with few exceptions I doubt anyone is pure 4-3 or 3-4 one way or another now. But Del Rio and Norton are guys that have implemented the 4-3 for their base system.

One other note on Wade, he's been more of a true 3-4 guy for most of his career, but he was Buddy Ryan's defensive coordinator in Philadelphia in the mid to late 80's as well, and Ryan was a 4-3 guy that created the Bears 46 defense and took it with him to Philly. Sp Wade has extensive experience running both types of systems.

dbair1967 · Jan 8, 2018

English Cowboy said:
Just been on Pro Football Reference. The Oakland Raiders 2016 page says they ran a 4-3, their 2017 page says they ran a 3-4.

What's this say?

Oakland Raiders 2017 Depth Chart - Base 4-3 D - ESPN

icup · Jan 8, 2018

dbair1967 said:
What's this say?

Oakland Raiders 2017 Depth Chart - Base 4-3 D - ESPN

even when you have other (better) options, you still wanna use ESPN

theyre not even a sports network anymore

anything to fit into dbair's agenda

Doomsday · Jan 8, 2018

dbair1967 said:
That said, with few exceptions I doubt anyone is pure 4-3 or 3-4 one way or another now.

That's certainly a reasonable enough thing to say.

But there's no question a 4-3 guy isn't ever going to have 10 linebackers on the fucking roster. The 3-4 guy invariably, will. That's a window into their core philosophy of defense, no matter what else. It simply makes no sense any other way.

Haleyrules · Jan 8, 2018

TheZoneSucks said:
Jerry's coaching tree is:

Jason Garrett
Kellen Moore

I doubt we ever see any of Jerry's kids coach for any other franchise.

Dodger12 · Jan 8, 2018

dbair1967 said:
I don't know if the Texans have commented on it publicly yet, but the other teams in the past did. McClay was definitely being considered by at least 1 or 2 other teams and I think there was a 3rd.

Stop it David. What does this even mean? His name was thrown out there? Big whoopdie doo. He wasn't interviewed and I'm not even sure another team requested to interview him.

Dodger12 · Jan 8, 2018

dbair1967 said:
The Colts and another team reportedly wanted him and he removed himself from the process both times previously.

Link? They "may" have wanted to interview him but that doesn't mean they wanted him.

dbair1967 said:
Why would we grant permission for them to interview him if they didn't want to talk to him in the first place? Apparently there's no "may" want to interview him there.

I thought I read this morning that the team has given him permission to speak with the Texans but that the Texans hadn't yet reached out. I just got home from work so I haven't had a chance to check up on today's Cowboys bullshit so maybe there's something more.

NoMoRedJ · Jan 8, 2018

icup said:
OHHHHH SO THATS WHY WE GOT KELLEN MOORE, OK THANKS GOT IT!!

Keep reading...

7+ years into the process and we still have the unproven mind but we're shooting for mediocrity.

NoMoRedJ · Jan 8, 2018

NoMoRedJ · Jan 8, 2018

dbair1967 · Jan 9, 2018

icup said:
even when you have other (better) options, you still wanna use ESPN

theyre not even a sports network anymore

anything to fit into dbair's agenda

Good point, I stand corrected

dbair1967 · Jan 9, 2018

Dodger12 said:
I thought I read this morning that the team has given him permission to speak with the Texans but that the Texans hadn't yet reached out. I just got home from work so I haven't had a chance to check up on today's Cowboys bullshit so maybe there's something more.

Normally the way it works is the other team/s request permission from the current team to interview somebody.

Other teams have requested permission to interview McClay in the past (incl the Colts), which to me means they are interested in him. Doesn't mean they'd definitely hire him, but some people around the league apparently like him.

yimyammer · Jan 9, 2018

dbair1967 said:
Normally the way it works is the other team/s request permission from the current team to interview somebody.

Other teams have requested permission to interview McClay in the past (incl the Colts), which to me means they are interested in him. Doesn't mean they'd definitely hire him, but some people around the league apparently like him.

Doesn't the Rooney rule apply to GMs as well?

Dodger12 · Jan 9, 2018

dbair1967 said:
Normally the way it works is the other team/s request permission from the current team to interview somebody.

Which is why I was surprised the Cowboys granted permission without the Texans contacting McClay

ThoughtExperiment · Jan 9, 2018

Jerry and McNair are big time buds. Could be just a favor from Jerry to Bob to let him interview.

Jerry might even let him go if he's determined to be a real GM that controls everything including free agency and hiring coaches, which McClay will never get here.

dbair1967 · Jan 9, 2018

yimyammer said:
Doesn't the Rooney rule apply to GMs as well?

Supposed to

dbair1967 · Jan 9, 2018

Dodger12 said:
Which is why I was surprised the Cowboys granted permission without the Texans contacting McClay

They cant contact McClay without first getting permission from Dallas, that's was my point.

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