dbair1967

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Well before I left, I was mentioning that I thought this was a huge statement type game because here we were at 11-1 and a chance to go into another good teams place and 1) Clinch the division and 2) Clinch a 1st rd bye. It was a chance for a young team to show everyone in primetime they really belonged at the top of the league and were a clear cut favorite to win the NFC.

They still may win the NFC, but there's no question that after the last two games the offense, particularly the QB play has to be concerning. If you had told me before the game we were going to hold the Giants to 260 yds, 10 pts, 12 first down and get 3 turnovers, I'd have bet everything I owned in Vegas over the weekend on the Cowboys winning huge. And yet they failed.

1) It's hard to be overly critical of Prescott because he had been so good the entire year, but his performance Sunday was dreadful and gave us almost no chance to win. He had decent protection most of the night and guys open too, and most of the time he didn't see them. He also looked incredibly confused at whatever he was looking at. He threw the ball poorly. I wonder if some of the inaccuracy was due to not wearing a glove on his throwing hand, because he was off on far more throws in this game than any other game this year. I dont know for sure but I dont think it was overly windy, just cold, heavy air.

2) I've seen many people crying about play calling and I will say what I typically say about it, other than one or two head-scratchers (that may have been audibles anyway) I dont think there's much to complain about. The guys just didn't execute. The pass protection was pretty good for the most part and I did see guys open on a number of those plays, but Prescott either didn't see them or many times threw inaccurately. They had some good success running in the 1st half but the Giants did a much better job in the 2nd half slowing Elliott down (9 carries for 21 yds and really only 1 good run the entire half)

3) The last 3 games, we rank dead last in the NFL in 3rd down conversions, and Sunday night was particularly awful. 1 of 15. The last two games in particular this is what is killing the offense and stopping drives. Another really eye opening bad number, they are just 2 of their last 24 3rd down conversions and NEITHER of those were converted with a pass. Most of the year we were excellent on 3rd downs, but the last two have really been bad. Tampa comes in Sunday night with the top pass defense in football over the last 5 games, so it will be a major test for our guys.

4) I'm as big a Dez Bryant supporter as there is, but that game Sunday (particularly the fumble on next to last drive) was just garbage. It wasn't even a good hit that dislodged the ball either. No question the two worst players on the field for us Sunday night were Prescott and Bryant, and we are going to struggle to beat anyone if they play that way again.

5) So Garrett came out and said Prescott was starting, but seemed to stop short of saying Prescott was the guy no matter what and the rest of the year. Then today Jones was asked if there was a scenario he could see where Romo would replace Prescott and he said "you'll know it when you see it". I didn't hear the context of the entire conversation, but Jones also said it was a "legitimate discussion" to be had about the poor QB play. My translation- if the offense is really bad again this week and we lose, Prescott might not be the starter vs Detroit in two weeks.

6) Lost in most of the grumbling over the bad offense was how well the defense played. Yes, the Giants missed a couple of plays but we also missed some plays. Every team misses some plays. The body of work was outstanding though. Only 10 pts allowed. Only 12 first downs allowed. Only 2.8 yds per rush allowed. 3 turnovers and a lot of good pressure on Manning. They had one bad play all night. Sean Lee put on a show on that side of the ball and the DL play was the best we've seen from this team this year. After how awful they were vs Washington the defense has definitely played better the last two games. if they can continue that trend and get the offense going again I think we'll be in good shape in the playoffs.

7) Like I said above, I dont think the blame is on playcalling as much as it was on bad play/execution, however I continue to wonder just what this staff/franchise's infatuation with Lance Dunbar is. I wouldn't even have this guy on the team, let alone give him any meaningful snaps. What is absolutely mind boggling though is not having your team's best player on the field in crunch time. With two different drives at the end of the game with the game on the line, there was Dunbar on the field in place of Elliott, and its beyond moronic. We did the Giants s favor by taking Elliott out. Dunbar is bad in blitz protection and he has absolutely zero explosiveness now. That kickoff return he tried he looked like the slowest player on the field, hell I could have run him down. Elliott gives you a chance at the 83 yd TD (ie, Pittsburgh game). Dunbar gives you ZERO-NONE-NO FUCKING CHANCE at those type plays, and we saw how important that type play is again Sunday night. NYG had zero offense all night, but won the game because they got their best, most explosive player the ball at a key time and he made a huge play. Elliott is that type of player. Leaving him off the field was fucking retarded. I really wish one of those idiot local guys would call out Garrett and Linehan about this in these press conferences, but they never do.

8) Lucky Whitehead should be cut. Just do it and be rid of him. He's been pretty much a zero as a return guy anyway and his ball security is terrible.

9) Not really sure why we are activating Darren McFadden, unless (hopefully) its to replace Dunbar. McFadden also has kickoff return experience so he could help there too.

10) Mentioned Lee above and his phenomenal game (18 tackles, 2 TFL's, couple of QB hits and a fumble recovery) but I thought it was by far Benson Mayowa's best game (6 tackles, sack/forced fumble, two TFL's) and Anthony Brown made a great play for a pick on Manning and continues his quality play. Barry Church stone heanded two tailor made INT's, but the 2nd one was really devastating because we'd have had the ball deep in their territory. He actually made good plays both times too, but couldn't come down with the ball. Justin Durant nearly had a pick (albeit it'd had been a really tough catch), and I think there might have been another one we almost had. It was by far the most chances we've had in a game this year, so that's a positive sign too.

11) The ball was carrying nowhere all night in that cold air, but Bailey's 55 yd FG nearly made it and he nailed it dead center. Nobody talks about FG's ever being great plays, but if he had made that one it would have been maybe the best kick of his career with the conditions considered. Obviously he'd have made that easily in ATT Stadium. He's a huge weapon for us in close games.

After what we've seen from Prescott the last two weeks, I now have a really uneasy feeling about the rest of the season and its a really delicate almost no-win situation for the coaching staff to be in. You dont want to ruin the kids confidence but at the same time, you are close to the win or go home mode now and bad games like we saw Sunday could kill is in January even if the rest of the team does its job (like Sunday). I do wonder how long the leash will be if they really struggle this week, but like I said above I take Jones' comments today to mean if its really bad again this week and we lose, that Romo might be back out there vs Detroit.
 
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ThoughtExperiment

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5) So Garrett came out and said Prescott was starting, but seemed to stop short of saying Prescott was the guy no matter what and the rest of the year.
Agree with most of the rest but when did Garrett say this, today? Because immediately after the game it sounded to me like he totally dismissed the Romo idea and thought Dak was the guy the rest of the year.
 

dbair1967

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Agree with most of the rest but when did Garrett say this, today? Because immediately after the game it sounded to me like he totally dismissed the Romo idea and thought Dak was the guy the rest of the year.

Yesterday. I think there might be an article up on ESPN now talking about Jones' comments today and what Garrett said.

Like I said I think its a really tough situation to be in (granted, only if Prescott struggles again). Romo having that PC he had a few weeks ago made this a lot more difficult than it could have been though, because I think it pigeon holed them a bit. If he had said nothing, then Jones and Garrett could have just said "we held out Romo until we were convinced he was 100%" or something along that line, and then replacing Prescott wouldn't have been a huge shock to Prescott or the team had it eventually happened.

Edit: Archer said "Garrett didn't make any season long proclamations about the rookie QB, but backed Prescott by saying "he is going to play QB for us as we go forward"

You could definitely read a few things into his statement.
 
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bbgun

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no complaints about the officiating

NVmPAW.gif
 

Doomsday

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The play calling was horrid. There's no way around that. Always a run on 1st and 10, then NO followup run the next play. Like they're saying "okay we'll pay lip service to the running game by running it EVERY time on 1st down, and when that predictably doesn't work all that well we'll do what we really want to do, throw the other two downs before we punt."

Yes, there were some execution issues but THAT'S WHY YOU RUN THE BALL IN A WEATHER GAME LIKE THIS! This is why the play calling was sooooo bad, it wasn't taking into account the conditions.

You really think dbair, that with "cold and heavy air" you should be passing 37 times when you have this OL and the league's leading rusher? You really think being 1-16 or whatever it was, on 3rd down is mainly due to poor execution and not bonehead play calling?

Where was Morris? No touches for him?

The play calling was stale and predictable, all except for the lone TD drive when it was actually spectacular. Where we used their fear of Zeke, as a weapon. You just need to re-think your way of looking at it - you can't on one hand say the playcalling isn't the problem, then spend two paragraphs griping about Dumb-bar. They have Dumb-bar in there, because of the bad playcalling.
 

bbgun

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play calling

backed up on your own 3 yard line, 66 seconds left to play, and Witten runs a five yard out route on first down (incomplete). why is that route even an option at that point in the game?

vlcsnap-2016-12-13-14h09m50s854.jpg
 

LAZARUS_LOGAN

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The play calling was horrid. There's no way around that. Always a run on 1st and 10, then NO followup run the next play. Like they're saying "okay we'll pay lip service to the running game by running it EVERY time on 1st down, and when that predictably doesn't work all that well we'll do what we really want to do, throw the other two downs before we punt."


THIS^^^. But the running was working.

Yes, there were some execution issues but THAT'S WHY YOU RUN THE BALL IN A WEATHER GAME LIKE THIS! This is why the play calling was sooooo bad, it wasn't taking into account the conditions.

You really think dbair, that with "cold and heavy air" you should be passing 37 times when you have this OL and the league's leading rusher? You really think being 1-16 or whatever it was, on 3rd down is mainly due to poor execution and not bonehead play calling?

This was NOT the game in which you would pass that many times and essentially abandon the running game. It would have made more sense to do this this coming week in Dallas.
 

CompoundFracture

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After almost 2 years on the sidelines and multiple injuries, I'm not sure what the media or the fan-base expects to see from a Romo start. Many are pointing to Dak's last two games and using that as proof he has hit some kind of rookie wall; not knowing what can be expected from him moving forward. But almost no one is talking about what you would get from Romo coming out of the gate. There are just as many question marks there if not more. In 2015 Romo was injured basically for the year in game two. In 2016, he couldn't even get out of pre-season.

And even if Romo did wind up starting somewhere down the line, what if he personally had a decent game, but the Cowboys still lost for other reasons (bad ST, bad defense, missed kick, whatever). Then what? Will people say we should never have bailed on Dak?

No. At this point (3 games to go and heading towards the playoffs) I'm more than comfortable sticking with what got us here and hoping Dak can climb his way out of the funk of the last couple of starts. Much like a pitcher trying to work his way out of a couple of bad innings.

Bailing on a QB that has an 11-2 record and has brought a playoff berth to the Cowboys franchise just seems absurd and knee-jerk.

At least to me.
 

dbair1967

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The play calling was horrid. There's no way around that. Always a run on 1st and 10,

Play calls on 1st down: run, pass, run, pass, pass, pass, run, run, run, run, pass, pass, run, pass, run, pass, run, run, run, pass, pass. 11 runs, 10 passes.

then NO followup run the next play. Like they're saying "okay we'll pay lip service to the running game by running it EVERY time on 1st down, and when that predictably doesn't work all that well we'll do what we really want to do, throw the other two downs before we punt."

Eh.

Yes, there were some execution issues but THAT'S WHY YOU RUN THE BALL IN A WEATHER GAME LIKE THIS! This is why the play calling was sooooo bad, it wasn't taking into account the conditions.

Again, they ran it with some success in the 1st half, the Giants did what good teams are supposed to do, made half time adjustments and focused on stopping the run. And they did stop it better. 9 carries, 21 yards.
You really think dbair, that with "cold and heavy air" you should be passing 37 times when you have this OL and the league's leading rusher? You really think being 1-16 or whatever it was, on 3rd down is mainly due to poor execution and not bonehead play calling?

He got 24 carries, it wasn't like he was left out of the game. And yes, I do believe lack of execution is the bigger issue. You cant have guys as open as he did and constantly miss them. The QB is expected to hit open receivers and avoid turnovers, and Prescott didn't do that very well the other night. The Giants do have one of the best rush defenses in the league by the way.

Where was Morris? No touches for him?

Why did he need them? Elliott got every carry by a RB in this game, Morris isn't as good as Elliott. Not sure what your point is here.

The play calling was stale and predictable, all except for the lone TD drive when it was actually spectacular. Where we used their fear of Zeke, as a weapon. You just need to re-think your way of looking at it - you can't on one hand say the playcalling isn't the problem, then spend two paragraphs griping about Dumb-bar. They have Dumb-bar in there, because of the bad playcalling.

The Dunbar thing is stupid and particularly perplexing to me, but I don't agree with the playcalling criticism. There are no magic plays. A play is either a run or a pass (unless its a punt or a kickoff). Its not like there's some massive rocket science going on there. Sometimes stuff called works and sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't, everyone wants to say "it was bad playcalling!!!!!"

Dunbar being in there has nothing to do with playcalling, its just stupid decision making. I get giving Elliott a series off each half (especially if he is running it a lot) and maybe occasionally spelling him on 3rd downs, but I don't get leaving him out the last two drives of this game.
 

dbair1967

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backed up on your own 3 yard line, 66 seconds left to play, and Witten runs a five yard out route on first down (incomplete). why is that route even an option at that point in the game?

View attachment 3724

Where were the other routes run to? You cant run everyone straight down the field every play. Needs to be some outlets somewhere.
 

dbair1967

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THIS^^^. But the running was working.

9 carries for 21 yards isn't "working" Laz

This was NOT the game in which you would pass that many times and essentially abandon the running game. It would have made more sense to do this this coming week in Dallas.

The last two drives they had to pass pretty much because of the situation. That was 7 of the pass plays.

Its not like it was some massive all game pass happy game plan.
 

dbair1967

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After almost 2 years on the sidelines and multiple injuries, I'm not sure what the media or the fan-base expects to see from a Romo start. Many are pointing to Dak's last two games and using that as proof he has hit some kind of rookie wall; not knowing what can be expected from him moving forward. But almost no one is talking about what you would get from Romo coming out of the gate. There are just as many question marks there if not more. In 2015 Romo was injured basically for the year in game two. In 2016, he couldn't even get out of pre-season.

And even if Romo did wind up starting somewhere down the line, what if he personally had a decent game, but the Cowboys still lost for other reasons (bad ST, bad defense, missed kick, whatever). Then what? Will people say we should never have bailed on Dak?

No. At this point (3 games to go and heading towards the playoffs) I'm more than comfortable sticking with what got us here and hoping Dak can climb his way out of the funk of the last couple of starts. Much like a pitcher trying to work his way out of a couple of bad innings.

Bailing on a QB that has an 11-2 record and has brought a playoff berth to the Cowboys franchise just seems absurd and knee-jerk.

At least to me.

Not disagreeing. All very valid points.

Its only two games (and the Viking game was nowhere near as bad as this one) so maybe you just chalk it up to he had a bad game and move on.

All this will be moot if they come out and play good offense vs Tampa like they did during the first 10 wins of that 11 game streak.
 
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Good write up. The main question at QB should be which one gives the team the best opportunity to win NOW. No doubt Dak is the future, but his rookie ceiling against good defenses is not very high based on the last two weeks. There's no advancing in the playoffs if they can't convert on 3rd down regularly. If the offense blows against Tampa then I think they have to make a change, given that you'd ideally want Romo playing some before the playoffs. If Dak lights up Tampa then none of this matters but he's been leaving a lot of meat on the bone for awhile now, even in wins. Those errors will end a season against playoff level teams.
 

bbgun

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Where were the other routes run to? You cant run everyone straight down the field every play. Needs to be some outlets somewhere.

an "outlet" is dumping it off to Zeke or Dunbar. that pass (to a slow ass runner) could only have taken him out of bounds, not upfield
 

LAZARUS_LOGAN

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After almost 2 years on the sidelines and multiple injuries, I'm not sure what the media or the fan-base expects to see from a Romo start. Many are pointing to Dak's last two games and using that as proof he has hit some kind of rookie wall; not knowing what can be expected from him moving forward. But almost no one is talking about what you would get from Romo coming out of the gate. There are just as many question marks there if not more. In 2015 Romo was injured basically for the year in game two. In 2016, he couldn't even get out of pre-season.

And even if Romo did wind up starting somewhere down the line, what if he personally had a decent game, but the Cowboys still lost for other reasons (bad ST, bad defense, missed kick, whatever). Then what? Will people say we should never have bailed on Dak?

No. At this point (3 games to go and heading towards the playoffs) I'm more than comfortable sticking with what got us here and hoping Dak can climb his way out of the funk of the last couple of starts. Much like a pitcher trying to work his way out of a couple of bad innings.

Bailing on a QB that has an 11-2 record and has brought a playoff berth to the Cowboys franchise just seems absurd and knee-jerk.

At least to me.


What was wrong with Dak's numbers in the Redskins' game? He threw for a TD and ran one in. QBR of 108.
 

dbair1967

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an "outlet" is dumping it off to Zeke or Dunbar. that pass (to a slow ass runner) could only have taken him out of bounds, not upfield

I trust Witten a hell of a lot more than Dunbar. Elliott wasn't on the field. (As I mentioned, I'd have had him out there for sure but that's not the point)

Witten isn't much of a downfield threat at his age now anyway, so they are using him in the roles he is best for in that situation. Throwing the ball in the middle of the field to him would burn a lot of time because he almost assuredly isn't out-maneuvering anyone and getting out of bounds.
 

LAZARUS_LOGAN

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Good write up. The main question at QB should be which one gives the team the best opportunity to win NOW. No doubt Dak is the future, but his rookie ceiling against good defenses is not very high based on the last two weeks. There's no advancing in the playoffs if they can't convert on 3rd down regularly. If the offense blows against Tampa then I think they have to make a change, given that you'd ideally want Romo playing some before the playoffs. If Dak lights up Tampa then none of this matters but he's been leaving a lot of meat on the bone for awhile now, even in wins. Those errors will end a season against playoff level teams.


Try one week. What was wrong with Dak's numbers in the Redskins' game? He threw for a TD and ran one in. QBR of 108.
 

dbair1967

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What was wrong with Dak's numbers in the Redskins' game? He threw for a TD and ran one in. QBR of 108.

The Vikes game his only really good pass play was the long one to Dez. Otherwise it wasn't an overwhelming performance.
 
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